| Home Page > Email Trail of Self-Help > One: The Trail Begins > Two: Thinking Changes > Three: It's Not Just Us > Four: No Beating Reality > Five: Boundaries > Six: Who is the Abuser? > Seven: Get Past the Past |
An Email Trail of
Self-help:
Stopping Abusive Relationships
Contents
Section Three: It's not just us they abuseI Think He is Abusive to My Daughter Too
I Don't Love You, I Never Loved You
Subject: Tammy do you want to join this support group?
Yellow Parents with a Green Child Can’t Make a Pink Adult
There Will Be Layers of the Onion to Cry Through
Husband Acting Nice but Problems Scream Through the Silence
Eventually I’ll Ask for a Divorce
Subject: Had to break it off with Jamie
He Doesn’t Think He Did Anything Wrong
He Thinks Our Troubles Were a Power Struggle
Subject: I don't want my childhood to be an excuse
Subject: Sometimes it’s not love even when it looks like it is
Subject: My H made bad choice after bad choice
Subject: Jamie and I dating exclusively
Subject: The Lump It Relationship
Patterns Beginning Again & I Feel Petty
I Shouldn’t “Question” his Authority.
No Resolution to the 18 Months of Insanity
He had Too Intimate Conversations with his Ex
I had to "Prove" his Wrongness Before I Could Leave
It's Not the BIG Things that Show Love
Subject: I wished I’d had her advice
Subject: Staying because Dr. Laura thinks it is the only moral choice
It’s like the Genie in the Bottle
I ask God to Do My Thinking for Me
Subject: Warning, Extreme bluntness ahead.
God Doesn't Give Gifts with Conditions
Clarity Will Come and a Feeling of "Rightness" will be There
Subject: If you insist on sitting in a bucket of shit
We Can only Heal When We Give Up Trying to Heal Them
Subject: I spent most of my time on the Why Channel and the How Channel
Subject: The Saga with Horses and Whores continues
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001
From: Tammy
To: Shelly
Hi Shelly, Well, I am having a tough day emotionally. I am sorry about the last email I sorta got to rambling. I was trying to make a point about the buying of the horses to explain how he used them against me in the divorce. So I thought we were buying each horse for $500.00 each. We had bought three in my mind paid in full, then he got two more and said, since money was tight, that he was making his dad a sleigh and doing welding to pay for the last two. So anyway, to make a very long story a little shorter, I said I want my share of Johnson Horse Logging. By the time of the divorce we had several thousand dollars in horses, horse drawn equipment, new horse trailer, logging cart, wagons, plows, harness, saddle, other equipment purchased for the maintenance of the equipment. A welder, cutting torch, saws etc. I wanted my share. So he said if he had to buy my share then he would have to sell the horses then he said we didn't own them so they couldn't be sold, he said we owed his father $7000.00. He said if I want my half of the business I have to take my half of the debt.
I said, “What the fuck are you talking about?”
He then claimed that each horse cost $1,500.00 and that we also owed his dad for harness. “You have to pay $3,500.00 for your half of the debt.”
“Where is the bill?” I demanded. My H said he would call his dad and have him write one. A pure bread Suffolk horse cost between $1,500.00 and $2,000.00. If he was going to pay that much money, why were we getting half breeds instead of pure breads? This had to be a huge big fat lie. This “debt” of his will never be paid in cash. Sure he will help his parents whenever they ask but no money will ever change hands. I was able to get through to him that this was really an unfair blow and he agreed to split the mutual funds 55%/45%, of course that was right before the value went down the toilet. Interestingly enough he is now preparing to sell a horse to pay for Melinda’s tuition, as per the divorce we each have to pay half the secondary education of both kids as long as they remain dependant. So of course he never lets Melinda forget that he has to “sacrifice” a horse for her. I think he is abusive to her too, it is hard to keep this straight in my mind because he makes me so mad and I yell so I am abusive, he gets the same response out of Melinda. Benjamin gets very angry too but he holds it in, I worry about Benjamin, we don't have to worry about our girl cause she is so strong and out spoken. Benny keeps it in.
One of the other things I could never understand was why he was always so willing to go out of his way to help his dad. His father physically abused him so badly, so did his older brothers, his mom was the verbal abuser, so
why would he want to go out of his way to help? The debt explains a lot. I have thought a lot about how much his mom yells all the time at everyone, until I started the "bible" on verbal abuse, I just assumed that she was
always that way, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense that she was driven to abuse by her husband.
Also as I was “whore bashing” in the last email I forgot to mention that she lives in a single wide with one of those traditional trailer trash old wooden porches on the front. I hate her so much. I get so upset when I see her at the hospital or around town. She is always so smug like she won. No humility at all. No respect.
So I was reading along in the book yesterday and so many things were becoming clear. Yesterday, I was sure that I was being abused. Then today as I read I kept asking if I was the abuser? Sometimes I read and I see that the first ten years I was this way then yes he did those things, then it seems like I evolved into where I am and that the roles are now switched. He is very manipulative but I am the one who yells and calls names, but I feel like I am pushed. Like you said I have to stop reacting to the button pushing, but I am only now seeing that. I usually respond badly so of course he can, rightly so call me the raging bitch. The book has helped me see that what he has viewed as my anger and rage is frustration, frustration at not being understood. I am in so much pain right now I can hardly breathe. I am still in love with him.
Today as I was reading along it struck me that I have always felt love FOR him, but I have never felt love FROM him. When he asked for a divorce he said I don't love you, I never loved you, I married you because my parents pressured me to. Again the confusion set in because when I got pregnant I said in my exact works, if you don't want to marry me you do not have to, I don't want you to feel like you have to marry me. He did not want to get married but he asked me if I would marry him someday when we were ready. I said yes and we went home to tell our folks. Then a couple days after telling everyone he came over to my house and said let’s get married. I assumed that this meant he had thought it over and wanted this too. I was wrong and it took 20 years of my life, my youth, my health for him to tell me the truth. I feel like my whole life has been in vain. Sometimes I know I will be better without him, others I feel like everything is gone and I will never recover.
Well I have so much more to share, it is so therapeutic to type this stuff out I am sure you get bored of it and don't feel you have to email back I just need to vent I feel so much better when I ramble on to you. I keep feeling that I just need to get it all out then I can deal.
I promised myself I would get off my ass and clean this house before the weekend so I need to get going. Just a quick note on your last email, my damn eyebrows are coming in gray too.
I love you, thanks for being there. TB
Subject: Tammy do you want to join this support group?
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001
From: Shelly
To: The Ladies
Hello Dawn, What an interesting and engaging dialogue you and I are having. You are the best support system. An interesting dynamic has added itself to this time of learning in my co-dependency and one of these "god-incidences" I often notice. My step-daughter, Tammy, has contacted me regarding some events in her life. I don't know if she would want them shared with you, I am now asking her permission, but I am sharing your stuff with her because you've already said I could share this knowledge. (Tammy, I think Dawn can help us both and I am sending you one of her many insightful and supportive emails to me. If you feel it might be helpful, I'd like to share your story with her--but will not if you are not ready to open up to her in this manner. She's heard nothing about you except in this email and in the book)
First comment--Dawn. I want to make it clear that I know our parents and histories have much influence on us. But here is an analogy: When you mix yellow with blue, it makes green. When you mix yellow with red, it makes orange. When you mix yellow with deep purple you get violet. What I am saying is that yellow parents cannot adjust for each kid. If yellow parents have blue, red and purple kids, they will get three "types" of adults--because of how the kids REACTED. While I have come out very co-dependent in my adult relationships, my brother Mike has come out very dictatorial and both our natures are in response to our shared childhood. Although we can "blame" our parents so to speak, it is really our REACTION to them that matters. And since we can't change the yellow parents but only our own hues, we can't use our parents or past as a basis for much. Tammy turned out as a nurturer and co-dependent like me, yet both our brothers (Mike-mine, and Bill-her’s) are very different from us. If our parents caused us to turn out the way we do, then our brothers would be pretty much like us. But they are not. What causes us to be the way we are, is our reaction to our parents--this is determined by genes, environment, parents, gender and other influences too numerous to name.
This is good news because we can change our reactions! So in my world, it is choice that ultimately determines who I am. If I don't like the green that my yellow history and blue genes created, I have to find the tints and paint a new canvas as I see fit. This is not something any Mom can do for their kid. And I agree with you 100% when you say, "that each child has his/her own psyche and responds to their parents situations in their own way." Other than as an explanation for why we are unique, I don't see how tracing anything to a parent other then to say, this is how I reacted to that, does anything. We can study it only to learn to change our reactions, not to say, "if Mom or Dad did this or that differently, I wouldn't have to change this behavior in me." Yeah, but we'd have to change some other reaction, I'm sure!
You also said, "But I always pulled through with good grades, going to college, getting a decent-paying career and appearing successful and mentally healthy. But I wasn't, at all." Dawn, how wrong you are. You are eminently healthy! Living on planet earth is a series of adjustments to life--finding out what works and what doesn't. You, unlike so many of us, are finding answers and adjusting a bit sooner--oh, believe me, you'll have many more layers of the onion to cry through, but the answers you seek are BECAUSE you are healthy. Don't you see? The unhealthy and 'sick" ones are the ones who don't find their way out of the problem. --they blame and hurt and struggle and stay stuck and even make it worse. But you are healthy or you wouldn't be on this path. The same with Tammy, my Mom, and me.
Below is the journal entry/update of what's going on now. My husband is acting great. Makes life nice on the surface. Nothing from the past is resolved--except money issues are out of the way. The difference today is that I am not letting him abuse me when I recognize it and I know nothing is resolved--I used to convince myself in times of calm that we were now on the right path! We're not and I know it.
RECAP: Bob has been great for a month. He’s even sanded and painted the dog cage--spent lots more money on it then I would, but he is splitting cost with me--so he’s doing husbandly things for me again. (minus the usual--he won’t watch Murphy when I go to Mom’s for her birthday--only the two dogs he likes, I didn't get milk for his sausage gravy; and I'm staying too long at Mom’s). He won’t go anywhere with me--wanted to go to the State Fair and the Crab festival—my H makes excuses like he used to--has to cut the tree branches (Note: for two weeks he’s been going to do this--now that I want to go to State Fair, that’s the day he picks and berates me for going to fair and making him cut the branches alone).
Of course I’ve been gone for 10 days. I told him before I left that we still needed to do something about our marriage and the pain and problems are not settled for me. He told me before I left for Mom’s that we had 10 days to “think about it.” I’m back and he’s nice and everything is “forgotten.” I decided this: he has always decided what to get mad at, when to get mad, how to punish me, how long it will last and when he’s ready to say it’s over. Our marriage has worked up to now because I let it drop when he says it’s over. Inside, I am resentful and want to talk--which I’ve told him so many times (since the bathtub fight of Sept 22) but he wants to forgive and forget. So I’ll be passive and go along with his plan until he blows up again and then I’ll ask him to give me a divorce. He’ll be shocked because he thinks I’m fine--just responding great to his new self. He does not listen to me and I have to get angry before he hears me. I’m angry and resentful and passive--so life is pleasant on the surface. I used to think this meant we really were doing fine and I was so relieved. This time I am not relieved because I recognize this as only part of a destructive pattern. Until the past is resolved and all the work I did acknowledged and his contributions to our pain and crazy making and ABUSE--is addressed, I will be neutral about our marriage--as opposed to destructive or proactive.
The truth is, he is the same as he was any other time, once in awhile really nice, mostly just focused on self, and sexual when it pleases him. I’m nobody to him. He won’t go anywhere with me, has worked like crazy on his computer problem (only taking time out for sex). I asked him to go to the mall and dinner with me last night and he did his normal hemming and hawing. I finally gave up and at 6:30 when I began dinner, he said, “Let’s go.” We got ready but it was too late (mall would close before we finished dinner. So I said no. He offered to take me today--actually, he was pretty darn nice when we went.)
Post Script: just before I left on trip to Mom’s, he was angry because there was no milk for him to make sausage gravy. I jumped around, in my usual co-dependent way, and made up some powered milk for him trying to “fix” the problem. Bob ignored the milk (which was later discarded) and my efforts. He stopped everything and drove to the store and got milk to “show” me how I inconvenienced him--although my H didn’t verbally say anything demeaning. This morning after returning from Mom’s, there was no milk (HIS mistake because I wasn’t here to do shopping) and he acted just fine about it and even made the sausage gravy with powered milk! See? This is the point. Even when he didn’t shout or criticize me before I left, he tried to demonstrate that I was bad and inconvenienced him about the milk thing. With the very same situation, where there was no way to blame me, he was reasonable. This is my life---I cannot be treated like an adult as he treats himself.
At the same time I feel guilty for writing this stuff when he is being so nice. Shelly
Subject: Had to break it off with Jamie
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001
From: Dawn
To: Shelly
Shelly, I have been off work all week staying home with Hunter and just being a mom. I think I was falling in love but I broke off the romance part of the relationship with Jamie this weekend b/c he wants to date other people. He was, I think, hoping that we could date while he's checking out the singles scene but with how close we got physically and emotionally to pull back to "traditional" dating with him would feel like a demotion. I was functioning like a girlfriend in my opinion, knowing full well what stage he was at in his life as far as serious relationships (he got divorced in September after being separated but living in the same house for about a year.) He was worried at how "caught up" he was getting in me and doesn't want to hurt me by dating later in the game, nor does he want to get serious again so soon. All this is perfectly understandable to me and I am not angry with him and we will still talk and perhaps get together as friends every month or two or so, but as long as he wants to date other people, I can't be his main confidante and lover. Does that make sense? I could have fallen in love with him but I'm glad this happened now instead of later. We remain friends and that's good. We'll see how it goes. He does have a touch of the "is the grass greener over there?" mentality and I don't like that. I've come to be a "count my blessings" type of mentality....
How are you? I see today that the Dr Irene site is not functioning correctly. It seems she always gets it fixed eventually. The links I sent are interesting but not crucial. I really like the format though of someone asking a long question and her responding within the question as well as after the question in the Doc Answers section. I will keep checking the site and let you know when it becomes functional again (when the menus appear again and search works.) Take care and let me know what's going on! Dawn
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 20
From: Shelly
To: Dawn
Hi Dawn, Wow, that's really something about you and your old friend. I'm glad he came out with the truth so soon too. You need someone who is crazy about you and your son and isn't struggling with other attractions. I trust that your Higher Power has something very special in mind for you. It will be nice to see it unfold. I haven't heard from Tammy since I sent you and her that journal entry. She has been in so much pain and trying to find where she went wrong. I wish I could give her all my knowledge and experience, but the pain is something she will have to work through on her own until she can see what a jerk her husband was. My mom and I always knew it, he was very abusive of her years ago, but she was determined to make it work.
Dr. Irene's site works in Explorer, just not in Netscape. I wrote her and let her know. So I did look at the link you sent and it was Sooo good. I wrote to Dr. Wayne and he wrote an answer! I'm the Nov 11 entry. I noticed that I got a little rambling at the end...
My husband and I are in a holding pattern. The trouble is I think he really is trying. That ads to my guilt when I feel ‘not happy’ about him wanting to forgive and forget.
Here is my journal entry for yesterday: We sat down and I read my husband the part of the Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous Book) that says “He is like a man coming out of a cyclone cellar--and sees nothing wrong, although the house is gone he says, ain’t it grand ma? I don’t see anything wrong.” I explained that I was not able to forgive and forget as easily as he. It is really hard when one person doesn't think they did anything that needs forgiving. He said, “You are putting things into my mouth,” and I do know I’ve done things, why do you say this? But it’s 50/50, not just me!” My H explained that as long as I wanted him to take all responsibility for our troubles, it would not happen. He said I kept blaming him and exaggerating and making things up to villinize him. I told him that saying, “I rebelled against you,” was all he ever admitted to and it is not enough for me.
“You’re right,” I quipped, “I do not believe it is 50/50. I do blame you more and feel like it’s 75/25. I had been continually seeking help, looking at myself, making amends and you haven’t.” He said that I acted like I was the only one working on things. I explained I could see he had really worked on his anger and we seemed to have settled the money troubles but that was only a symptom of our problems. I can’t go into the future with him if we don’t work on the past. Bob said I was now the one who was threatening the marriage and he wasn’t going to go there.
Again, I reiterated that I do not want to live with a man who believed all the things he accused me of. “You imagine things, he alleged, “Like the thing about me accusing you of having an affair” I told him I know he never said those words, but his behavior on more than one occasion insinuated that--whether or not he believed that I had, it looked like he was accusing me. Even if we drop that one, it still leaves many other things (I should have used the word “abuse,” but I can't get myself to say it again). He said that he thought our troubles were a power struggle and that he should have told me years before that he didn’t like what was going on. He added that he was afraid he couldn’t do his finances as well as me and that he was lazy.
It looks like he thinks we are both to blame and so we should just forget it. I am not willing to let him treat me like that and then say it was as much my fault as his. I think neither of us want to say the word “abuse” I have said it to him several times, but he doesn’t feel he was anymore abusive than I.
What do I want from Bob? I want him get in touch with what “abuse” is and how he may have abused my goodwill and I damn well want him to tell me thank you for what I've done for us. This is such a big one with me.... I'm not sure…
So Dawn, that's my update. My husband is being wonderful--7 weeks now. I, on the other hand, am pretty distant. Am I being fair? Shouldn't I give him a chance? If I were a really “good” wife I would forgive and forget, wouldn't I? Why am I so insistent that he admit he was abusive? That is my current quandary. Shelly
Subject: I don't want my childhood to be an excuse
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001
From: Tammy
To: Shelly
Shelly, Sorry it has been so long since I have dropped a line. So to answer you regarding Dawn. By all means share with her if it will help! I don't have any problem with that at all. I thought a lot of what she said was exactly what I would have said about the whole childhood blaming the parents stuff. I agree with you that our parents are not to blame. However I believe it is important to understand the background we have to work with. We are all individuals and respond differently to our environment. My brother was the wild one and I was the over achiever. The point is though we as individuals chose our own way to get the attention of our parents. our father abandoned us as his father and mother had him. because my father never looked at his childhood to find himself and identify with it, he repeated the sins of his father and then some. I want to look at my childhood to understand what guides my response. When we are under attack or stress we revert to what we learned as children to keep us safe and happy. for me it is food, and working harder to achieve i.e. make more money so my H will be happy. I don't want to be stuck and I don't want my childhood to be an excuse, but I do think it needs to be looked at and resolved so I can change my responses to stress. I and I alone am responsible, every time I loss my temper every time I allow him to push my buttons and get the conditioned response that he is looking for so he can make sure I am a raging bitch so he can seek comfort from someone else, every time I can choose my response, be responsible, but I have to know what my fall back is and understand it's roots so I can change. yes I know that is a major run on sentence but it is one am.
Anyway I have been have a rough time lately because I just don't seem to be able to make time for myself to exercise and work on my workbook and my journaling. every time I set here to talk to you stuff just pours out and I want to write so much but I am exhausted and taking two weeks off at Christmas and a couple days off for thanksgiving so I really want to share some more. I will make time each day to do that during my vacation, I always feel so much better. I love you so, TB
Subject: Sometimes it’s not love even when it looks like it is
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001
From: Shelly
To: Tammy CC: Dawn
Hey kiddo--I too look forward to taking a few days off and writing reams of material. My heart just went out to you when you said you still feel like you love him. I don't have time now, but have lots to share on that because it happened to me and your dad. I had pretty much decided before I caught “them” (my ex H and his 17 year old honey) that I did not love him. But how can you leave a disabled man? I talked to Your Aunt R about it several times and concluded that I would feel too guilty to desert him. Yet when his affair came down, I felt like I loved this horrible person. Why? I didn’t love him before the affair! I kept thinking I would wake up and it would be a mistake or I had misunderstood something. I wanted to go take care of him, when he was shot, I was practically on a plane back and his sister talked me out of it. I think it has to do with deep trauma, wanting everything to be all right, I have to run... We'll talk more about it. Much love, Shelly
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001
From: Shelly
To: Mom, Dawn, Tammy
Happy Thanksgiving to you three--my support system is emerging form the hell of co-dependency! I misspelled "Thanksgiving" as "Thinksgiving" in the first draft of this email and I love it! For me this year it IS a "Thinksgiving." I am giving myself something good to think about. No my husband is not coming with me to my family for thinksgiving because one day I have to work with my brother and my H doesn't want to be bored. Although I think it’s really self-absorbed to not celebrate with my family (we have celebrated with his family every year since we met), I am relieved he is not going because I think it would be a normal trip for us—strained.
Is this progress? Please tell me what you think this "thinksgiving" because I am not sure if I might not be going too far--pushing the envelope when maybe I shouldn't. The good thing is, he is being restrained and pretty nice about things--not ugly and angry--but restrained and trying to work things out--this is GOOD. It is hard for me to stand my ground when things are nice like this. In fact for over 4 years, I have not stood my ground. When my H dropped the fights--I was all too willing, and we continued to repeat the past. Now, I want to really work through things, but it’s creating problems for us. Here goes:
Journal Entry November 21:
H and I went to pick stuff up from the West Point houses (they sold). Went fine. There was an incidence with his car keys. He insisted we return each other’s car keys when he was divorcing me awhile back. Once my H decided not to divorce me, he laid his keys on the table. I never took the keys back because I refuse to guess what he wants or try to read his mind. It’s been awhile and he finally worked up a good mad over it. At home he wanted “to talk.”
“I can’t read your mind. What kind of a game are you playing?”
I pointed out that returning the keys in the first place was his idea. Until he told me what he wanted me to do with his keys and what that meant about our cars, I wasn't taking them. He said I could have cleared this up long ago. “This is a game you are playing,” he snorted. It is a game on my part. I am so sick of him doing things, then reversing them (without really telling me) and I'm supposed to go along with it. Not taking the keys was a statement from me and yes, a game. Anyway, he took exception to the word “made.” He said, “I can’t make you do anything! I didn’t make you give my car keys to me and I resent you putting it that way.”
Since we were talking about him separating things, I brought up the computers and the fact that all three were mine originally and my mom bought them. I then said “his” was the family computer and my back up. When he gets mad at me, he “forbids” me to use it or go in his room. “You have no business there.” I resent him “forbidding” me to use my backup computer. Yes it is “his” because we agreed he’d have his games on it and use it unless I needed something--but it isn't really his his. My H explained that he had some personal stuff on it and didn’t want me looking at it.
Although he didn’t apologize for “forbidding” me to use my own computer, he did admit to it and offer an explanation and to take back the “order.” This gesture somewhat satisfied me. We hugged.
But, I am not done. I told him that the car key thing was not finished for me. How did he feel? Were the cars ours, we could use them interchangeably or should we ask, what? He said we should respect each other that his is his, and mine is mine. Then my man asked, “Will this ever be over? Can I ever satisfy you? You just keep bringing this stuff up.” I was a little taken aback since it was he who got upset over the key thing and wanted to "talk." I asked, “Who brought this up?” He said, “You did--you said you weren’t finished with the car thing yet.” I was flabbergasted. It’s true, I will not drop it--or the past until we work through stuff. I won’t be miss co-dependent kiss-ass when he says something is over. Yet my husband seems to think I started this thing about the keys! The truth is, I won’t let it go. It seems to me, he originally started it when he handed me my truck keys and wanted his car keys back when he decided to leave, and re brought it up tonight.
I told him he was in denial and this scenario was pretty typical. He initiates something, decides how long it is going to carry on, decides when he is ready to forget it and then resumes normal living without ever addressing what happened. Then I am the bad guy if I don't go along with his program and forget it when he wants to. OK I AM THE BAD GUY, then.
He came back later and told me he wasn't in denial about giving my truck keys to me and wanting his back, he truly didn't remember. My guy said if he wanted therapy, he would get a therapist and he didn't like me talking to him like that (saying he was in denial). I said I didn't like him “forgetting” what he did and then blaming me for starting things. He said, “Then everything is my fault?” I said, “Not everything; this particular thing.”
I told him later that I was holding on to the past and I wasn't going to let go until we worked through it. He said he wanted to move on and he was sorry I was holding on to the past. He told me to work a fifth step on it (from the AA program). I left our argument saying, “From June of 200 to Sept of 2001 was a type of marital hell. Those months were horrible and until you can admit what you did that created the problems, like I am, I will not let it go.” And I won't.
Am I being a bitch? I still hear him telling me to shove the agreement up my fucking ass, and fuck this and that, and him leaving, and him criticizing and blaming me for everything and saying I deprived him, was hiding assets from him, was lying about him, villinizing him, and all the while him criticizing everything I did or didn't do according to his arbitrary desires. He has been wonderful for two months. Yet, I don't know how to "let go.' any more. Why? He doesn't know what he did. Shelly
Subject: My H made bad choice after bad choice
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001
From: Tammy
To: Ladies
Shelly, WOW, happy thanksgiving and happy thinksgiving to you too. What you said about not letting go of the past until it is worked though really touched a nerve for me. I read all these self help books, my goal is to sit down and read something fictional some day, But all these books preach forgiveness and letting go for your own sake. I can really relate though to what you say about working it out. when I look at my problems I see that if I would just do this and he would just do that we could get through this and all would be well. That is the fixer in us and we have to look deep to make sure that we understand what we really want. so often I think about how much I love Donald. I go off on a crying binge about the way he laughs at funny movies, the way he gets so excited about little kids who show interest in his horses, how he chews on his mustache when he's nervous and on and on. then I find the porn stuff everywhere. I think about him verbally abusing the kids especially Benjamin, lying to me about our debts and on and on. for a long time I defended him saying he is a good man who made bad choices and often I still believe that, but when you keep making bad choice after bad choice then at some point I have to see that I am better off even though I miss him terribly. So I guess it is just a matter of balance and when is enough enough?
You can't fix your H, but I think what you are doing is good. you need to set your limit and seek balance, what is your level of tolerance for the small stuff. don't hold on to every little thing hold on for change in only those things that you really want change in. know what you what, we all want utopia but we have to realize that if we had it there would be nothing else to work for. so take some time this thinksgiving to think about what you really want from your marriage, make compromise the goal not sacrifice. about four months before I found out about the affair, I sat down and made a list of all the things that annoyed me about my H. then I went back through the list and put a check by the things that I could live with and worked on embracing them as part of who he is and I found that I could be much more tolerant. the things I couldn't live with I tried to talk to him about, but he had checked out of the marriage ten years ago so it really didn't help to talk. anyway maybe a list of the changes you want in the relationship and a long look at yourself to clarify what you want and what you will tolerate might help.
Also I think it is so important to listen to him when he says he can't read your mind. Donald said that to me a lot. I am such a doer of love, I mean if I love you then I am doing your laundry and making your favorite cookies or a nice dinner. I am feeding your horses, taking great care of your kids, helping you earn the living etc. so I think you should see all I do for you and thank me and say you love me. then I am hurt when you don't even notice what I do. I am upset and you have no idea why but I think you should know why and so the circle goes around. know what you want and make it clear. don't ever make him read your mind, your not being fair to yourself. we want things to go a certain way but we aren't making that way known then we hold them responsible for our happiness, which is solely our responsibility. Don't beat yourself up about holding on to the past, don't hold the past just sort out the real issue. Look at you key situation and try to identify the real issue, is it trust, is it ownership, is it fear of being left? Identify what is really going on then hold on to that until it is resolved. don't bring up the examples all the time cause that becomes an attack that they have to defend themselves from. stay to the identified point. explain to him that when you asked for the keys, I felt... make it clear what you think the issue is and make it clear that the key thing is just an example (symptom) of the real problem i.e. you don't trust me.
So to answer your question you're not being a bitch you just want a better marriage and if he is willing then I am sure you will get it. I love you, TB
Subject: Jamie and I dating exclusively
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001
From: Dawn
To: The Ladies
Shelly, I have dropped out for awhile... no real reason. Haven't been feeling too well. Slight nausea all the time and I went off caffeine so that may have something to do with it but also I think I have something wrong digestively. The thought of food makes me feel sick and looking at food the same. Someone today suggested I may have an ulcer, and actually that sounds likely. I'll have to go to the doctor. Of course I'm eating some stuff just not as much as I used to and fatty food sounds just gross to me right now, so that's good for weight loss!
Jamie, the high school sweetheart, and I talked a lot and now we are dating exclusively, at his request. Funny how when you stand up for you integrity, sometimes things just work out. He said he found he missed me like crazy when he was going about dating others. During that time, I went and put a profile on an online dating site -- www.match.com -- and got a handful of responses from guys, which boosted my ego. When Jamie came back to me, it was all very nice and sincere and we talked about our feelings. It so good, but strange, to be with a guy who has the co-dependent stuff too, rather than the other way. Jamie has co-dependent stuff in him and so we are both sometimes trying to accommodate the other and it makes for some pathetically nicey-nice talk and action. But I wouldn't trade it for the other -- NO WAY!
Take care and let me know how you are! Good that Tammy wrote back. It sounds like you were happy to hear from her! Also sounds like she's having some rough times. Let me know how things progress.
Subject: The Lump It Relationship
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001
From: Shelly
To: Ladies
Dear Dawn, Dropping out is a good choice now and again. Especially when you get reams of journal entries from a self-pitying middle aged baby boomer still searching for answers, a vestige of the answers not found at the love-ins, sit-ins, and live-ins of the 60's. Your health concerns me, though. When I had nausea all the time, and spells of dizziness, it turned out to be my thyroid. I thought I was going crazy. It got so intense (over a year's time) that I ended up with mild seizures. This is the end stage of hypothyroidism. Do get it all checked out. I hope what you are experiencing is something mild and not pregnancy or some consuming disease or something. Keep me posted. Yes, I wanted your address. I'm sending Hunter a story I wrote. I hope he likes it.
That is funny about you and Jamie. I can just hear it, "What movie would you like to see?" "I don't know, how 'bout you?" "Well, it doesn't matter, what would you like?" "I asked you first." "No you didn't, I did." I can see Hunter with his little fists on his hips ready to say, "Let's go to Harry Potter, Mooooom!" Yet you are right. Better that than Hunter hiding in the bedroom because some guy is cursing and calling you names and punching holes in the wall.
I am happy about Tammy writing. I worry because she still feels like she loves your H, as abusive as he's been. Isn't that related to the Stockholm syndrome? I told her I still felt I loved her father (even though months before he began affair with a 17 year old, I was ready to leave him). I kept thinking I had made a mistake and somehow it would all go away and I'd be back with him. I think the trauma and the repeated abuse makes us cling somehow to the abuser emotionally. Like the people abducted begin to sympathize with their captors, plead their cause and side with them. I think that can happen to us to. I think it is severe trauma that produces that thing--your H was very abusive and she became reactionary and abusive back. But what she feels for him could not be love. I don't know what but its something her emotions grasp that I don't' understand. Not in me or her. I think both her and I can benefit from what you've learned about these things. You seem to have succeeded in understanding what's going on and acted on it in your own best interest and in Hunter's. So you are stuck with us for awhile.
Hey, I am thinking of beginning that book I said I might write from our emails... Possible title : "I hate the word Victim!" I was telling this to a friend of mine that I hated to call Bob a perpetrator and me a victim as if I wasn't part of the equation. She suggested I say "recipient." I am the recipient of his anger and abuse. Maybe. Then I thought of the saying "like it or Lump it." I feel like I am lumping it right now. How 'bout "The Lump It Relationship" for those of us who are not being beaten and can't find an obvious good reason for dropping out of the relationship, especially when “they” try. Then I thought of the saying, "You made your bed, now lay in it." So we could call it, "The Lump it, Lay in Your own Bed, Relationship." Let's do some brainstorming here. You, Me , Tammy, and Mom. What will we call our book?
Finally, right now my most prevailing feeling is guilt that I don't accept Bob's peace offerings. Why? Well, you didn't think you'd get out of this email without another journal entry, did you? Here is today's. What do you think?
Dec 3: Hubby is maintaining his “new” behavior. He is truly giving it a hearty try. I wish I could respond, but my deep feeling is that if I “give in” and let him drop all the past, that the abuse will escalate again. Anyway, who wants to let someone abuse you, then have that person blame you for it, deny it, then say you are 50% to blame, forget it, then accuse you of being a poor sport because you won't forget it, too? If this had not been our pattern for 5 years, I probably would forget it, but forgetting it means we don’t really move on--just suffer from the illusion of moving on.
Actually his pattern is beginning again, but it is so innocuous in the beginning that if I complain, I sound soooo petty. For instance--he has begun that thing of contradicting everything I say. I like a sign, he picks it apart, if I say the weather is good, he’ll tell me why it’s really bad, etc. Example from Dec 1: We drove to Sport’s Authority to get the 38 hand gun he decided I should have. I agreed to the handgun (I miss my 357). He said a 38 was better, less kick. (This is my Christmas present) I asked for an ornate handle and he said I needed a foam pad because it is more functional. Same crap of him telling me what I really need. I didn't argue but feel I should have. He has no idea how wearing it is for him to constantly deciding for me what I really want and need. I just get bone weary. Anyway, he was upset because Sport’s Authority can’t sell hand guns any more because their liability is too high. I agreed it was foolish and stated it was like bartenders being responsible for people they served alcohol to and added that I never had agreed with that type of approach. My husband then explained to me that it wasn’t the same because bartenders could tell when a guy was drunk. I said that wasn’t true, many times they could not tell, especially with high tolerance alcoholics. He said he didn’t agree---I was frustrated and wondered why I ever talked to him. No one incident can explain what I’m talking about. He is entitled to his opinion and to disagree with me, of course. It’s that almost everything I say is contradicted or flat-out ignored. It’s as if when he can’t counter what I’m saying, then he has to ignore it and invalidate it. He still often just ignores me. I asked him the other night, “Why do you remain silent so often when I say things? It’s very uncomfortable.” Bob stumbled over a flimsy excuse about what I say not needing a response.
His hearing is really bad and I suggested he get a hearing aid. My husband snapped, “You don’t hear a lot of things I say, either.” I have to repeat things all the time and it’s annoying as hell. I think lots of times when he ignores me, he actually didn’t hear me, but I don’t know.
He offered to fix my hard drive or CD burner if I need it. That is so sweet. Yet if I choose to have Mike Pullen do it (a computer expert who owes me money), Bob will get angry at me. He’s begun that “you don’t believe me, trust me, listen to me..” complaining again. This is a common complaint with him. I shouldn’t “question” his authority. A vision of him several years ago comes to mind when he looked at me with tears smarting his eyes and said so sadly, “Why do you question my authority all the time? You never just listen to me. I know what I’m talking about.” I used to try to explain that I am allowed to have an opinion; that we couldn’t carry on a conversation if every time I want to discuss options he takes it as me thwarting his authority. I asked for him to treat me with the same respect he would a buddy, that he would never expect them to do everything he said without question. Now I don’t explain or beg for this respect anymore. I just ignore him, if I can. Example from yesterday: I asked how he warmed the dog’s food in the two food bowls and he said he heated them for 10 seconds in the microwave. We have three dogs today, not two (with Murphy). Bob suggested I use setting 15. I went to the microwave and started with 12, since neither of us have done 3 bowls before. He got angry that I didn’t do 15--”Did you do 12? You never do what I say!” He stormed outside, smoked a cigarette then came back in with the incident “forgotten.”
On Television last night another serious warning was issued to keep alert for more terrorist attacks. I said, “We are going to stop listening if they keep giving us major warnings about these terrorist attacks. This is the 3rd since September.” “Well,” Bob began, “I wouldn’t call them major. They are not major warnings.” I just want to scream. I got up and walked away. What am I doing? I don’t even want him around now; it is so uncomfortable. I wish I could say something--but any one thing seems too small to call attention to.
Thus I am in the holding pattern. I don’t want the marriage. I don’t want to not want the marriage. I sit and wait for him to get really abusive again. I sit and regret that I feel no resolution to the 18 months of insanity we went through. I am not what I consider to be a good wife right now and I feel guilty. Oh, I get up with him, make his lunch, do his laundry and fix the meals and inside I resent and wait. Some life, huh? I’m not quite sure what I expect from him or me. I can’t change him or get him to understand. This has been pounded into me, with the Evans book, with you, and the counselors. I know it, but don’t believe it. Do I consider leaving? I don’t hate my guy. I just feel numb most of the time. I feel guilty for not responding to him “forgiving and forgetting.” How do you leave a guy for contradicting you? For not answering you? For not being supportive of your work? Especially when he is being so nice (10 weeks now) and doesn’t drink, run around, gamble or anything. How do you leave a guy who is going to buy you a 38 to protect yourself? Yeah. My biggest feeling right now is guilt because I don’t feel gratitude. Lots of love to you Dawn. Shelly
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001
From: Dawn
To: Ladies
Shelly, I think I do have an ulcer or something to do with acid in the stomach or intestine. Since I began taking Pepcid AC yesterday, I feel much better. I know I still have to see a doc, b/c the research I've done shows that the drugs will help but won't cure the ulcer, especially if it is caused by these bacteria that they think most of them are caused by. I need some antibiotics to get rid of the bacteria, if I have it, and they can test me for these bacteria. Anyway, I feel much better now and I really think that it is an ulcer or acid reflux of some lesser kind. On the still loving your abuser -- I don't know why.
My abuse was extremely covert -- much like how your husband is treating you now -- so I think that was why I still "loved" my ex. I think he subconsciously knew I would definitely leave if he frequently overtly abused me, such as name calling, hitting, etc. Those are things I wouldn't have tolerated. But he gave me silent treatments, ignored me, neglected me, yelled occasionally in reaction to a simple calmly-asked question or suggestion. He did all this mostly without witnesses and typically acted more attentive and "in" the relationship around his family and mine too I guess. But my parents both said they noticed a distance from him. We didn't see my parents much b/c they are 200 miles away. But his parents were part of our everyday lives.
But, when I left my ex, I left grasping onto evidence of his somewhat too-intimate conversations with his ex-girlfriend. Someone I was always jealous of and who he refused to talk about and acknowledge I had anything to be jealous about. I was 'crazy' for being jealous and he didn't have to talk to me about her. Yet she got to hear about me and our problems. In fact, my ex had to meet with her to break the news of my pregnancy to her, and he called her from his cell phone one hour after Hunter was born, I'm guessing from outside the hospital, b/c he didn't do it in front of me. (I found the cell phone bill later and yes was snooping and was devastated to see he called her almost immediately and couldn't do it in front of me or tell me about it.) I tried to understand the relationship; I could see they had a deep bond, a friendship, but what bugged me about it is he couldn't share his feelings about the friendship with me. Basically, he wasn't my friend; but he was her friend.
Anyway, I grasped onto some evidence I found as a reason to leave but really it was all the covert BS from the whole time. But like you, it didn't seem enough or justifiable to leave and I felt guilty or like I had to "prove" his wrongness before I could leave. And I still loved him too. I don't know why I still loved him. I guess for me the desire to get him to love me overpowered the desire to love myself -- that is get away from his abusiveness. Then the scales tipped and I decided to love myself more. That happened when my brother opened my eyes to how much I was letting slide -- how I was excusing the mean things he would say and do as "oh he's having a bad day" and keep trying to find ways to make him love me. But I still loved him when I left and after I left. It was only after I worked through my stuff that I felt like I didn't love him anymore -- not romantically. The way he was with me was not love. And I saw that only months after I had left.
I won't say I'm totally able to determine real love now, but I can say that the kind of love my ex offered does not turn my crank anymore at all. I hope it sticks. I don't give my time to guys who abuse me covertly or overtly or manipulate me or whatever. I recognize the signs so much earlier now. Jamie is so great. No abuse, open communication. He's not perfect but he is my friend, truly and he treats me as such.
Shelly I read somewhere (I think on the www.drirene.com site) something that goes like this. “It is the thousands of subtle shows of friendship and care that happen during two people's interaction in a day that creates a harmony and partnership.” What this says to me is it's not the BIG things that show love -- of course these things are nice too -- but the subtle things that go on during an interaction that leave you with a feeling of closeness and partnership or with a feeling of competition and beat-downess. Do you know what I mean? From what you wrote, it the subtle words, gestures and things like that that are affecting you. It’s the thousands of subtle interactions in a day that make the difference.
Your H is also doing a ton of DISCOUNTING you. Discounting your preferences (ornate handle), your opinions (weather, terrorist attacks). Reread the discounting section in the Evans book and you'll see what I mean. NOT COOL!
Shelly. I think this: I could have stayed with my ex but if and only if I submitted to falling out of love, taking care of myself, ignoring and not taking personally his abusive stuff, and never having that partnership/friendship/mutuality I have always dreamed of. But I could have stayed and kept myself sane -- taken off with the girls, or Hunter and me, or by myself sometimes. Just lived for the financial and moral stuff -- shared expenses, shared child, mommy and daddy and baby all under one roof. I could have dedicated my life to Hunter and me and just left my H as an afterthought, like he did me. If my ex would have adjusted to that (instead of my constant doting, wanting him to love me) we could have stayed together. But Shelly, I'm so glad I didn't do that. But it's everyone's individual choice and decision.
It's so hard to come to a realization that the person you are with is giving all they are capable of giving and even though it seems like that can't possibly be all they can do or have in them to give, it is all they have to give to YOU. Maybe they would be more loving, caring, partners with someone else, but with YOU they have given all they can give and if it isn't what you need then it just isn't. No blame. It just isn't what you need. That's how I sum up my ex and me now. Of course I'm a long way past the pain and daily abuse, so it's easier to say that now. my ex would always abuse me covertly if I was with him -- that's just how he interacts with me. HE sees me as a threat or something I don't know. He has to overpower me, belittle me, highlight my weakness and ignore my strengths. He has to want me less than I want him at all times. That's just how he is with me. With someone else, he would probably be different. I don't know but It doesn't matter. Keep in touch and sorry for rambling! Love, Dawn
Subject: I wished I’d had her advice
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001
From: Mom
To: Shelly
Isn't that woman just too much? She can get to the exact nitty gritty of what it all is! I think she's great. Wish I had had her advice a time or two! LLM
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001
From: Dawn
To: Shelly, Tammy, & Mom
I am grateful for the compliment from your Mom. I don't feel like I'm getting to the nitty gritty, but I guess I am. I
feel like I'm rambling on and on... Thanks for sending your mom's words!
Subject: Staying because Dr. Laura thinks it is the only moral choice
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001
From: Shelly
To: Ladies
Dear Dawn, Our stories do sound familiar. I think of you and Hunter and how much of your life is before you. No, it would not have been optimal to stay in "holding" pattern with Hunter's father so that you could live in a Dr. Laura world and feel proud of staying and wither away as a woman at the same time. For me, I don't know yet. My driving force is to do God's will. I asked for this man and I got him.
It's like that "X-Files" scenario where the genie in the bottle is real. The brothers who find her get three wishes and are so excited. But just as if the universe is playing this colossal joke on them, They get EXACTLY what they wish for and never can see the whole picture so that each wish granted becomes a nightmare, not the dream they envisioned. One brother is in a wheel chair and the other a petty criminal. They both think it would be great to have a boat--a yacht--BIG to sail around the world. The wish is granted and a huge yacht appears in the back yard and of course the police immediately are onto it. This panics the brothers who have to waste a wish getting rid of the boat. Then the brother has one wish left, takes his time and decides he wants to be invisible. It's done and the guy strips (his clothes are not invisible) and begins dancing around the neighborhood when he steps out in the street and a car, the driver unable to see him, runs him over. He dies and is taken to the morgue, invisible except for the smudges of dirt. The other brother panics and gets his three wishes, one of which is that his brother be brought back to life...but the guy forgets to make him visible again--has to use another wish on that! When I think of us telling God what we think is best for us, I always think of this story and visions of these brothers come to mind. They sit at the breakfast table eating bowls of cereal. The brought-back-to-life brother sits at the table, bleeding, broken, moaning in pain with an eye half hanging out, trying to eat cereal with a spoon dangling from his broken fingers. The wheel chair-bound brother looks perplexed, eats his cheerios, and says, "Quit moaning, at least you're alive." Of course the other brother wishes he were dead and tells him so.
I think, that when I tell God what is best for me that I am doing this sort of thing, not seeing all the parameters. So I ask God to do my thinking for me. I am actually afraid to make a decision to leave my man. I asked for this guy, now he's here. How can I tell God, "Well, I like his looks, I like how he treats me when he's in a good space, I like it that he doesn't run around and doesn't drink or drug, but excuse me God, I don't like it that he discounts me, angers easily, is not interested in my work, doesn't carry on interesting conversations, and won't admit it that he's abusive..." I know God doesn't want me to be abused. I have learned through the Evan's book that I can stop the abuse--I can't change his reality though. Frankly, I don't believe I have any more wishes left. YOU do! Tammy too!
So let's brainstorm on the Title:
The Lump-It Relationship
Drown that Genie in the Bottle
I hate the word Victim
Give me some suggestions, no matter how silly. Hugs, Shelly
Subject: Warning, Extreme bluntness ahead.
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001
From: Dawn
To: The Ladies
Shelly, You are not running out of time or favors from God. God doesn't keep track or have quotas (Imagine God speaking." Hmmm...that 30-year-old is due for a prayer to be answered, but that 60-year-old, ah well, they've had enough prayers answered, so I'll just put their file in the back of the bunch."
I ask you to think about this. God gave you the man you asked for. He also gave you a man that presents challenges. Couldn't this all be the plan? God gives you what you need to learn what you need to learn to get on to the next level of growth. God doesn't give gifts with conditions. Shelly, here's what I’m saying -- let's say I give you a beautiful accent scarf for Christmas, but I say you can only wear it you tie it one particular way. So now you have a beautiful scarf and you wear it that one particular way for a while but because you've been limited, you start to hate the scarf, become bored with the scarf and never wear it. I don't know if that's a good analogy, but what I'm saying is God didn't attach conditions to the "gift" of your husband. He said here, “this is what you want, here you go, now figure out why you wanted this so bad and if it is really what you want. “ I felt this way about my ex. I wished and prayed for my ex to be in my life. I kept myself available to him when he was around. For eight years, it didn't happen. We'd get together and then he would bail out or not be interested for long, or not in the serious way I wanted. But I kept wanting him, despite his on-again, off-again, put-me-on-a-shelf way of being with me. I seriously think God got to a point where he said, "OK Dawn. I've kept you two apart because it's not the right path, but you can't seem to see that, so you can have him and just to hammer the point home, you can create a child with him and then you will have to face the realities of his personality/interaction with you, rather than living on the fantasy. You will learn how to share with him and the difficulties with that, and you will learn how to compromise with him and you will learn how to not let yourself get lost in him. I thought you could learn this without the pain of being with him, but you haven't , so now you will get your wish."
The thing is I got my wish, but it was God's way of leading me to my true path. I don't know if this is meaningful to you at all. The bottom line is this: Don't assume the agreement you made with God is the one he had in mind. He may have agreed to what you were asking but had more in mind. But in my experience, you'll know when you know and no sooner. At some point, clarity will come and a feeling of "rightness" will be there, if only a small beacon in the fog -- it will lead your way. It may not be the right path for you to leave your “Grief”; it may not be the right path for you to stay with him. No one can know but you at the right time. But for whatever reason, God is deciding you have to go through this -- whatever the outcome -- for reasons that we can't know right now.
Shelly, all my opinion! Let me know if you want me to keep the opinions more to myself! Dawn
Subject: If you insist on sitting in a bucket of shit
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001
From: Mom
To: You Gals
I just can't believe Dawn's grasp of things sometimes. I won't be giving my "opinion" so much anymore, you aren't in the difficulty (pain) or position as when this all first started and it's time for mother to step back. Dawn can tell you the truth as she sees it, which is the best anyone can do, and she has a lot of insight. I, of course, will always offer my opinion! I was trying to say God isn't limited also, if you insist on sitting in a bucket of shit for six years it's you insisting on doing it, not God. I feel your inner voice is telling you to sit quiet for now and that has always proved to be the clearer message. Yes, you should get an appointment like you said you would! Do tell me about your appointment, couldn't bear to be left out of the story now, but I will try to restrain my comment.
I think it’s hilarious that your daughter sent me peanut brittle and says you ok’d it! Me with my toothless mouth, getting my teeth repaired. It’s funny that she blames you! Ah, grandchildren. Mom
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001
From: Shelly
To: The Ladies
Dawn, your story is a lot like mine. No, I didn't wait around for 8 years hoping against hope for the same guy, but I've spent a life-time hoping against hope for the right guy. Very similar position. You are right, I don't think God intends for me to martyr myself. Whose best interests would that be in? But there is a book, "Recovery From Rescuing" That has one terrific chapter in it, "The Mirror Channel" and Jackie writes that our life is tuned into different wave lengths or channels:
On these other channels we have been looking at life as if it is something that happens to us.
On the Hopeless Channel we spend most of our time complaining about what happens.
On the Why Channel we hope that finding the answer to the question, "Why did this happen?" will make us feel better. If it doesn't, we switch to the... How Channel. Here we spend enormous amounts of time and energy coping with what is happening and trying to figure out how to control what might happen in the future. On the Mirror Channel we see reality as if it is something we create, rather than something that happens to us.
You see the Mirror Channel is a no fault one. Here we don't blame but just learn to respond--we make mistakes and learn from them. but the crux of being on the mirror channel is seeing that our perception is what makes our world what it is. She goes on:
This Universal Intelligence loves us so much that it is a perfectly consistent and persistent parent/teacher. How else would we learn? It teaches us through cause and effect. It does not judge. It does not honor right, wrong, or good intentions. It honors free choice. It is always trying to teach us about ourselves and itself Conflict is purposeful and on purpose. Pain is a signal that we are out of alignment with Universal law.
Finally, the most important thing about what Jackie Castine, the author writes is:
If we run away from a person or situation that was created to teach us something, we will just repeat the uncomfortable experience.
This I believe. Jackie writes that we can only heal when we give up trying to heal or help them! Leaving while still wanting them to change carries the pain with us. So I would like to let it go with my H, wanting to heal his hurts so that he will treat me differently.
I was thinking about calling my counselor and my Mom had urged me to, too. But I put it off and put it off. Then 2 nights ago, the counselor called me! An insurance issue had come up and he needed some info. I took the hint from the universe and made an appointment. Very interesting! I explained all my unresolved past. How I wasn't going to let it go this time and repeat the pattern. How I couldn't get him to respond, and the covert discounting that is going on now (you pointed out in a past email). The counselor asked me if my H was recognizing any of his part in what happened.
"A little," I said, "He says that he 'rebelled' against me." The counselor laughed at that and remarked, "So he is still blaming you? If he rebelled against you then he is saying that you did something to cause it all."
Wow. I hadn't thought that that statement was him still escaping his part and blaming me! I told the counselor that my H said we are both 50% responsible for the hell we went through. "I don't believe I am 50% responsible,” I repeated to my counselor what I told Bob. “I believe you are more culpable than me. I will take 25% of the blame and point out that I have identified and made amends for my part and you haven't!" The counselor asked why my partner didn't come back for counseling. “He didn’t say.”
Then our counselor said that he'd like to talk to my mate. He suggested that I ask him to be curious about our situation and why it’s not resolved for me--why I am so hurt over everything. The man suggested I liken it to my H’s job where he has to check out the rides at Busch Gardens and see why things break, so when he fixes them he can make sure they don't continue to break.
At home, I followed his suggestions and my H ignored me, then said, "I'm not ignoring you." When I suggested he might want to talk to the therapist to see why I needed some help through this, he snapped, "I know what you need, you already told me. You need me to take all the blame!" That was the end of that conversation.
Dawn your guidance is like gold to me. You say you are being so blunt. You ought to hear my Mom! No, your opinions help me gain perspective. You have a keen insight that is really helping me see, understand, and take action. Keep it coming. Shelly
Subject: I spent most of my time on the Why Channel and the How Channel
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001
From: Dawn
To: The Ladies
Shelly, I liked what you wrote about the Mirror Channel. Makes sense to me. After I left my ex, I spent most of my time on the Why Channel and the How Channel. What is the title of that book?
Your counselor sounds good. With the comment about "rebelling," he/she sounds like they have a good handle on covert hurtful statements (abuse)... Twisted language that leaves you wondering if you should feel bad or mad. And because you're the caretaker, you choose badly, so as to give the benefit of the doubt! I know, Shel, I've been there!
On the blame issue and the percentage of blame, here are my (blunt) thoughts. I don't think it matters. He's 75
percent/your 25 percent and have made amends -- so what? I know you need the validation of your efforts and the
recognition that you have been striving for partnership/mutuality but have made a few slip-ups and you may also highly desire his REALIZATION that he is most to blame. You want Bob’s realization, regret, repentance, am I right? Thing is, he can't give that, b/c for whatever reason, that is more scary than losing you for good. (I'm speculating here Shelly.) It's so strange to me how admitting the stuff is so hard for the more abusive one in the marriage/relationship. I guess what I've gotten off www.drirene.com is that the shame and guilt that accompany the realization is so GREAT that they literally reject it when a hint of it starts to seep into their brains. Like a corrupted file or something on the computer called their brain. I think the blame issue and the past is your biggest battle and most abusees biggest battle.
To repair the relationship, though, it seems to only work if the "victim" or recipient or whatever a good name is, can put the past aside and just work with the behavior in the present and act and react a different way. It's often too difficult to let go of the hurtful past though. I know; I couldn't do it. Not while I was mired in it. I can now b/c I'm not with him. I guess the bottom line here is determining blame and getting him to realize is a waste of time and energy, in my opinion. Not useful to strengthening the relationship. Not even useful to bring it up at all or even to say to him "I no longer will be talking about or focusing on the blame." Just drop it; forget it. if he brings it up, say, "I think talking about blame isn't useful to helping us." If he says, well that's a switch. Just say, yes, I thought about it, and I think it's not useful to improving our relationship to focus on that. And leave it.