An Email Trail of
Self-help:
Stopping Abusive Relationships
Contents
Section Five, Learning about BoundariesSubject: He seems happy. I am appalled.
Subject: I have learned how to forget!
I Understand now Why He’s Being So Nice
Some People Practice Subtle Cruelty
If Contact with Them Exhausts You, then Something is Wrong
Subject: Friendly opponents in the game of marriage.
At Times I hated Him for it, at times I Mated Me for it
Subject: Forgiving and fair witness
Subject: He Denies He knows What He’s Doing
Subject: I Know where I need to go
Subject: Grok, Forgiving, Victim
He Once “Forbid” Cosmetic Surgery
Do We "Volunteer" for the Abuse We Receive?
Now He’s a Man Who Can't Abuse Me and Won't Leave Me
Co-dependency is sooo easy to slip back into, isn't it?
Subject: I understand how he feels
We Must Try Not To Damage our Relationships
Subject: He feels "pushed" by me when I get excited by stuff
Some Abuse May be an Inheritable Trait
Subject: I think verbal abuse/control does run in families
A Letter I Never Sent Helps ME
Subject: Why love seems special with abusers/controllers
Subject: Our sweet little dog died
Subject: Partner Management Tools
He Doesn’t Play Into my Weaknesses
Subject: The “Gently” theory and gender generalizations
Our Issues Don’t Weigh on Their Minds
Subject: Men have conned us, they are not that sensitive
Their Buddies and Co-workers are Given More Consideration
We Begin the Cycle of Co-dependency
All Relationships Contain Abusive Incidents
Subject: Bitches get respect, broads get abused.
With Verbal Abuse, We Tend to Take More and Recognize Less
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
There's an old saying that: Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. Your right to verbally swing, ends where my boundary begins.
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002
From: Dawn
To: Shelly
Shelly, Was my feedback hurtful to you? Dawn
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002
From: Shelly
To: Dawn
Oh my God no!!!! I loved it. I just added your share to the booklet I'm making for all of us--I just am so busy, have not had time to answer. Dawn, please don't ever think you are too harsh. You are an angel. I just thought of that line and sent it because I like it! But I can see how you might have thought it was a sarcastic response—not intended that way, I promise you. Lots of love, Shelly
Subject: He seems happy. I am appalled.
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
Hello beautiful support system. I LOVED Dawn’s feedback to me with my last letter and want to comment on it, but got pressed for time. My husband is being a doll right now. Hard for me, but I have learned two things. Patricia Evan’s suggestions for getting them to STOP really works. You take a stand, tell them to knock it off and they do! She is also right about them not “getting it.” You can't explain or ask them to understand what is going on. They can not/will not--understand. You can never be true intimates with an abusive man--you can get them to stop the abuse but not to be your friend and partner. I got my man to stop abusing me, rather easily I might add. But it has come at a terrible price. I don't love him like I used to. Probably, as I would love even a neighbor. He isn't my friend/intimate and I guess never will be. So I got half of what I wanted. I don't have a marriage, I have an arrangement. He seems happy. I am appalled. I pray for him every day--for happiness, health, what he wants. I don't want to "hate" him for not copping to what he did and how he contributed to our horrible 18 months--he won't/can't. So the trade off, he has a nice arrangement for him--I have to decide if I can do this, don't I? I'll be at Mom's next week so I’ll answer from there. Tammy, what's up? Love you all, Shelly
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002
From: Dawn
To: Wonderful Women
Ladies, What have we all been up to? It's been a slow month so far in February -- slow at work, at home. No crises or major events. Jamie and I are still working together smoothly, with only a minor bump concerning him spending too much money on me for an early V-day gift and me protesting it too much and hurting his ego and gift-giving joy. (Oh, what a problem to have.) Let me know what's going on with you! Dawn
Subject: I have learned how to forget!
Date: Tue: 12 Feb 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
Hello Wonderful Women, Dawn, what a joy for you! That is quite a problem--sabotaging someone being nice!
I have good news and not so good. The not so good first. My husband, for the most part, is still on a ‘nice’ track. I have had so much trouble understanding why he has been so nice for almost 6 months now. Well Evan’s new book explains it! (Oh, that’s the good news, I got ahead of myself!). I have wanted very much to grow, be spiritual, and do the right thing in my relationship with my husband. In my spiritual searches, I have found, repeatedly that spiritual leaders say to forgive and forget--yes, FORGET. Mom and I have discussed it a lot. How do you forget? How can I let go of the past that he won’t admit to and we can’t resolve? I am the culprit and I am the problem because I won’t let it go. Not a nice place to be. However, on an obscure page in a spiritual newsletter, was a sentence that explained how to “forget” and move on. You simply never bring it up again. My mind won’t “forget” the facts, but I can act as if...I’ve forgotten. so my current spiritual exercise is to never mention that 18 months again and that is called “active forgetting.” It sounds self-effacing, I’m sure. But I want this to be a spiritual lesson for me--not revenge. But like I said, all this forgiving and forgetting-- just letting him “get away with it”-- has come at a terrible price. I don’t feel any man-woman love for him anymore. I feel sort of a meta love--as in “love your neighbor.”
I returned home two days ago from a conference in Florida and long visit with my Mom (her taking care of me with a painful kidney infection--but I’m glad I had it with her and not at home where I can’t count on TLC). Last night my man looked around to hang his antique rifle on the wall. I have asked him to put the rifle up a number of times in the last few years, on the shelf under the loft where he originally wanted it. Then a few weeks ago, he mentioned maybe not putting it there (to my disappointment) but putting it over a picture on another wall. He had held it up to show me. I didn’t much like it, but didn’t say anything. Christ, will I never learn? I figured we’d discuss it later. Anyway, he began hanging it above the picture last night--I was going to do my usual and not say I didn’t want it there, but I MADE myself speak up. No more co-dependency. I said I didn’t realize that “we” had decided where to hang it. He went into a whole thing about how WE had decided and he remembered exactly! I quietly explained that this happens a lot. He mentions something he wants and then when I don’t protest loudly, he decides that “we” came to a decision. Amid an angry outburst, he said that he was trying to find a new place to put the rifle because I didn’t want it under the loft!!!! This is absolutely not true but he is SURE that it is. He then spit out, “Well, I won’t hang it anywhere! This isn’t worth it.” Later he complained that he was walking on eggshells. That I roll my eyes at him and he can’t do anything right.
My oh my. I asked him for examples and he had none. I said he should speak up. He said he was afraid to because nothing pleased me. I said I couldn’t be responsible for stuff he couldn’t explain or point out to me. He whisked his plate off the table, swooped his food in the garbage and stormed out of the kitchen. Are we back in the pattern again? Probably. My husband later ignored the whole thing and acted like all was well.
That’s the bad news. The good stuff. Patricia has a new book out!!! I love it. “Controlling People.” Yeah. It answered so many questions for me. One question was about him being so nice. Well, she explains that when they abusers feel like they are losing you or don’t have the upper hand, they are nice. Only when they feel “safe” do they get abusive. So with our finances split, he can’t hold that over my head; my guy isn’t “safe” and knows he could lose me. Then my H makes extraordinary efforts to be nice. It really helps for me to understand the ‘why” of all this.
But that was only a tiny part of her book. She explains the whole reason why abusers act like they do. She got really weird on trying to give names to every behavior and thus you’ll find a lot of psycho-babble that she makes up. It’s a little annoying, really. But the explanations are sound and helpful. Evans explains how abusers/controllers see us as extensions of them in their world. They don’t relate to a real world but to a pretend world. You become a pretend person to them. Since you are an extension of their fantasy and mind, when you do or say anything that is not from them, they became threatened because you are showing yourself to be separate--they get abusive.
Evans gives a scenario of you being their “Teddy Bear” and as long as you give comfort to their world, they are OK--as soon as you ask where they are going, something Teddy would never do because Teddy, as an extension of them, would KNOW, then the abuser/controller gets mad. You’ll love reading it if you need the explanations for things like I do.
Also, remember how I can’t stand the word “victim?” Well, Evans does come up with one new word I rather like, “witness.” She calls us witnesses. We have to witness their insanity, abuse, unreasonableness. I like being a witness.
Evans describes how our abuser is constantly trying to define our reality for us. They don’t recognize our reality or individuality. Before we can have a loving relationship they will have to see us as a separate person, a worthy separate person. I wasn’t my H’s Teddy Bear last night. I had a different opinion. So he made up the past and declared I didn’t want the rifle on the loft wall when it was, in fact, him who wanted the change.
Will I be spiritual? Will I be his Teddy? Will he blow up again soon--I’m being sarcastic. Did any of you read “Stranger in a Strange Land?” Great book. In there, they had folks that were called “Fair Witnesses.” They ONLY reported facts and made no assumptions. They went to school to become a fair witness. If you asked them what color a house was, they might answer “The house is white on the south side.” That was the side they were looking at, not knowing if it was yellow or blue on the north or east side, they only related what they personally witnessed. Oh, how I wish I had a fair witness at my side. Both for my well-being and my H’s.
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002
From: Mom
To: Everyone
Hi to everyone and a happy Valentine's Day - I don't miss any of these "love days"!!
I felt that a lot of the "stuff" in Patricia's new book wasn't true for me. She says that the people that practice the control really don't know what they are doing. She says that they can go into a space where they have their own reality and it doesn't necessarily correspond to what's true or not. I don't feel this is really true. When they feel safe, then the controlling (behavior) gets worse and when they don't feel safe then they act "nicer". I think that if they are "there" enough to modify their behavior, that then they are "there" enough to know what they are doing, going to any length to get their way. She also uses a lot of language that seemed to get in the way of my understanding what she was saying. BUT, she also came up with some good stuff. The part about people (men) going into the abusive behavior when they felt safe (which means to me - whenever they could get away with it) adds another part to my puzzle.
That may be beside the point, What happens to us is the same. It's the same whether they really, really mean it or not. Years ago my brother told me that I was subject to a certain kind of cruel personality and if I felt bad after I was in someone's company that I should think carefully about why that was so. This was something that I could get my teeth into, something I could judge for myself. (Of course I didn't relate this to my mate!!!) I found that there were people who put me down and practiced subtle cruelty. For some reason I did not recognize what they were doing, actually thought many of them were friends. I think this process of finding out about abusive men is part of the same package for me. For some reason I would NOT believe their behavior meant what it seemed to be. They really loved me, it was just the way they were brought up or they were under a lot of stress at the time. I told myself, they loved me underneath it all. My last husband stopped going places with me, even to the store, while he had women friends that he chummed around with and he had many “reasons” why they needed his company.
Shelly came up with another great no brainer way to identify abuse. (She will tell you the name of the author of the book - great to have a daughter that can research everything) If you feel tired most of the time after being with your mate then something is wrong. You should feel rested and comforted and energized by a good friend or mate. If you feel exhausted by contact with the person that is your significant other, then something is wrong. I'm beginning to believe that this process we are going through is a large life lesson for me. Something that would have made my life easier along the way but is still satisfying to be able to put together now.
Now don't ask me what prompted all this philosophy!!!!!! I'll just go out in my Hot Tub, look at the stars and think up some other "deep thoughts". Love, Georgiana
Subject: Friendly opponents in the game of marriage.
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
Hello Ladies, Well, for me, Patricia's techniques worked--and still work. My H will not abuse me ever again as long as I remain vigilant. I chose right now, not to leave because of a spiritual promise I made to God--that God is making these kinds of decisions for me. And it’s good for my well being. Yes, according to Sol Gordon in "How to Tell if You're in Love" (that Mom mentioned) mature love makes you feel energized and fit while immature love exhausts you. So I get zapped and tired and have to work hard around my man—it’s not a mature and fulfilling love. As I've said before, I'm paying a price for staying. He is too, because I don't respect him much (I do respect his determination to make a go of it), I don't love him like I want to; we are not intimate sharing partners--we are friendly opponents in the game of marriage. It isn't the best of all worlds, but not the worst either. And I believe strongly in Step Three (from the 12-step program)--God is my director. It will be very clear if, and when, God’s will for me is to leave.
That was an analysis of why I stay. But now the forgiving thing. Oh my, oh my. Sooo difficult. Letting go of the fact that he was cruel, mean, unkind, intimidating, oppressive, withdrawn, denied the facts of our arguments, accusatory, blaming me for his faults, more than difficult, dashed our joint dreams, AND REFUSES TO ADMIT WRONGDOING drives me nuts. At times I hated him for it, at times I hated me for it. Then I really got intractable with my Higher Power for all this spirituality stuff that says I have to forgive and forget and let it go. I, like you, didn't and don't want to. How can we anyway? How can we let them get away with it? Forget what they did because its the right thing? Why is it the right thing to let them get away with being abusive? Why do we have to forgive seven times seven--or whatever that bible verse is? I think it is one of those things where God has to do for us what we can't do for ourselves. Patricia Evans says that if you employ her methods within several months you will know if you have to leave or they will leave because they can't stand you stopping their oppression of you.
I was sure that my man would leave for good. I wanted him too. But he didn't. Evan's methods worked and I was really upset about it. Because now that he's behaving, I need to forget and I wanted, as Dawn said, his "realization, regret and repentance." I ain't gonna get it! His behavior is seldom abusive anymore. And, well, here is where God put me. So I do the next right thing…
I can't forgive and forget, so as Edgar Cayce pointed out, I NEVER MENTION HIS PAST AGAIN. That is the only way to erase it and make the “forgiving” a behavior I can practice. You know in our program the "act as if" technique? And you know what? It's been several weeks that I put this into practice and he's getting even nicer, more thoughtful--little gifts, many displays of affection--why couldn't all that be when I was deeply in love with him? It still bothers me that he "got away with it" but that is between him and God, if I understand "judge that ye be not judged" correctly. And it bothers me a little less every day. Shelly
Subject: Forgiving and fair witness
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002
From: Dawn
To: Wonderful Women
Ladies, It's a cliché -- but I feel your pain and exhaustion at working on and thinking about a callous, non-partner like partner. All I can offer is that I found forgiveness much easier once I was out, but have seen the "past" feelings -- hurt and anger and unworthiness and unlovability -- flare up over the simplest act of unthoughtfulness on the ex’s part when we are dealing with each other over our son or when his mother questions my actions with our son when he is sick or whatever. The distance makes forgetting easier than forgiving, I think. But the two go hand in hand for me. When he's not in my face the abuse of past wanes. It's not less wrong, but it's less intruding if that makes any sense. It's less affecting.
We need places of comfort? People who can hug us and show affection without obligation. I think that is so important to our physical health. In my opinion, when you live in a home constantly on edge, looking for what's going to happen next, it deteriorates your spirit, your physical being. TAKE CARE OF YOU!
On the fair witness. Shelly, I grok that! I read "Stranger..." just this past year. What struck me about your comments on fair witness is that YOU are your own best fair witness. You know what happened to you and it truly does not matter if your mate or your friends or his family see it, know it, or think it. I found it so difficult to trust in my own perceptions, in my own reality and even harder to rank my perceptions at the same level of importance as ANYONE else’s. Does that make sense?
Shel, it sounds as if you are doing OK with his niceness and stopping the abuse when it rears it's ugly head. Oh, but you long for the mutuality, the shared time, interests, the repentance, acknowledgement. To repeat, I feel your pain -- your quandary. And I support your decision to "do nothing" while you are still undecided about what to do. It's one of Dr. Irene's most useful pieces of advice, I think.
My hugs go out to you all. Go get a professional massage you guys! It's great, it helps with the physical. Spend the money. TAKE CARE OF YOUR NEEDS! Dawn
Subject: He Denies He knows What He’s Doing
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
Hello Wonderful Women, Dawn, you continue to amaze me. How can you be the youngest? You have learned this stuff so well and you share so clearly. I know about the triggers with their behavior. Right now my man pretends he doesn't know what I'm talking about when I call a stop to his abuse, so I pretend that he does and just go on and life goes on normally. It’s sort of funny.
You read Stranger in a Strange Land ? I thought that was only for us old hippy chicks. Yes, I should be my own best Fair Witness, even Patricia Evans and Dr. Irene says that. Yet, it is very difficult when the perpetrator continues to accuse you of what they themselves do, when they deny what really happened--any reasonable person has to doubt their own perceptions. Mom says they know they are abusing, Patricia Evans says they don't really--I find it hard to believe they know because it is so illogical and unreasonable and DUMB--and he denies it too. But when it serves his purpose, he does seem to "remember"--I think though, that's its just a co-incidence. They don't really remember, they are fabricating like they do with everything--at some point when you make things up you "hit" on something that really did happen. But, my Mom is usually right, so maybe I just don't want to believe that he knows he is lying and denying . Love and blessings to the group keeping me afloat today.
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002
From: Dawn
To: Wonderful Women
Ladies! Hello. I used to think my ex KNEW what he was doing but am 99% convinced now that he didn't know. Of course, me thinking he did know made me hurt so much as I was incredulous that anyone could knowingly treat me like that. Also, me thinking he did know caused a lot of fights and barriers put up in our meager attempts at communication. He seemed to look at things only from his perspective and I from mine. As much as I spend time thinking about him, how to help him, guide him, do something that would elicit loving behavior from him, I didn't think to think that what he was doing was "normal" to him. That didn't enter my mind. I thought he knew what he was doing and he didn't give two sh*ts about me obviously from what he was doing to me. He really did care though and truly thought he had given as much as he could give in the relationship. When he said that at the end I couldn't believe it. I thought it was another denial/lie to make himself feel good about himself. But I think he truly thought that and even more profound to me, I realized later (after not living with him) that he truly did give me all he had to give. Problem was, it wasn't what I needed. It wasn't what matched with me. What I gave wasn't what he needed, wasn't what matched with him. I couldn't live without the stuff he didn't have to give me. He didn't seem to mind living post-breakup without the stuff I was giving him pre-breakup. So, he didn't beg me back. He didn't fight my leaving. He just didn't say or do anything. He made no decisions, just said he couldn't decide. And I couldn't live without deciding so I left. Whew, sorry, I got carried away there in the emotion of that time! aargghhh it STILL gets to me. Love to you all, Dawn
Subject: I Know where I need to go
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002
From: Tammy
To: Wonderful Women
Hello Everyone, I am sorry I have been so busy. I read quickly through the e-mails whenever I get a minute but just have trouble making time to respond. My house has sold and I am in the process of moving to a very small apartment in town, hope to have more time then.
I can relate so much to what each of you share but I don't always know what to say. I know you are struggling to forgive, let go. I struggle with this too. What I am realizing is that I know I need to get there but I can't make myself be there if I am not ready. What I am trying to say is there is a process and we have to work through it, the forgiveness will come when we have worked through our hurt and anger and whatever issues we know we have to get to. In an earlier e-mail from Shelly, I think, she talked about how each of us in our little group is at a different place. We shouldn’t pressure ourselves. I know for myself, I just wanted to put this mess behind me, run away, put it away. But everything would just keep being there until I started sorting each little thing through, setting little tiny boundaries and not letting them be crossed, let one little thing go, i.e. every other weekend my ex (wow it hurts to say that) takes my two kids skiing. After their second trip to the mountain when he had to buy them lunch at the lodge he informed me that on the next trip I would need to pack them a lunch. I told him to go to the store buy the mixings and pack a lunch for his kids. He brought them granola bars and water. So I let that go and I pack the lunch for my kids so they can enjoy their ski trip without starving. He doesn't get it, he never will, and now I am figuring that out and choosing my battles.
Anyway I am possibly going to be out of the loop for a couple of weeks because of my move. I staying with a friend till March 10th then after that I should be set up and will be more involved in this wonderful group. Thank
you all again for the support. I recently read a little saying about denial and putting off dealing with things. "If you do not deal with your pain, don't worry it will wait for you." Love to you all, hang in there. Love ya--TB
Subject: Grok, Forgiving, Victim
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
Hi to this fantastic group: I have a few comments on our latest. Dawn, I grok your position about him 'knowing" what he was doing too. (Grok, for anyone who has read Stranger in A Strange Land is more than sympathy, more then empathy, its like knowing as well as if you were that person and it happened to you too--to Grok something!) I too hurt so much when he "hurt" me and acted as if he didn't. How could he be so dense? I think maybe they would destroy their own self illusions if they were to see what they are really doing, no matter what their self-dialogue is, if they see the FACTS--it would destroy their fake reality. I know my husband would hate himself if he knew how insane he really is sometimes, if he could see how greedy, petty, self-absorbed he is. It doesn't fit his self-image. I think we are afraid that they will commit suicide--we are not far off. If they got a full dose of the truth, they might hate what they see bad enough to end it all.
I had some wrinkles excised from my face and a brow lift on Tuesday. I did it with just locals, asking the doctor not to put me out. And because I'm an alcoholic, I don't/won't take the pain medicine, which totally surprised everyone in his office. Even though it went well, my face is horrible right now, stitches all over, cuts from top to bottom. This is trauma city to my head.
My husband used to tell me that I shouldn't get any procedures done with my face and in fact, got into horrible fights with me over my "tune-ups." I had told him when we met never to say anything about me tuning up my face and body now and again (because I didn't want to defend myself). Years later my H denied we ever had that conversation. He has belittled me often about my choice to stay young looking and "forbid" any surgery. Now that I am the non-co-dependent me, I didn't even discuss this venture with him. I informed him I was doing it. He was seemingly OK with it, but I came home yesterday from the clinic, blood and stitches all over my face, needing burn pads over the wounds. I had to ask him to make dinner, which he begrudgingly did--yet I had to set the table and then he promptly left afterward and let me clean the kitchen. I went to our bedroom and needed to change the two week old sheets (not wanting to have wounds on dirty sheets). He stayed in his hobby room all night then came to bed late and said, "I thought you wanted me to help with the bandages?" So innocent. I supposed I could have asked him to change my dressings, make the bed, clean up the kitchen, and see if I needed anything, but he's not a child and I get sick of having to instruct him on how to be a caring husband--SICK of it.
Toby Rice Drews has a site and she talks a lot about the abuse of the alcoholic. Just lately she has brought up people telling us that we "volunteer" for the abuse we receive. Volunteer?--No no no. I simply did not "bargain for this, set it up, know it in my heart before we married, or any of those cliques the experts accuse us of." But what am I, if not a victim and not a volunteer? You all know I have been searching for a different term. Patricia Evens used the word 'witness’ in her last book. That was better but still not "it." Finally, I read an article on scapegoating. In this article they called them (us) the "target." Yes, that's it. I was, and still sometimes am, the target of his abuse. What I chose to do about being the target is my issue now. Most of the time I stop his abuse immediately with the Evan's suggestions, sometimes I chose to ignore it, and sometimes I forget and feel bad. But no, I am not a victim and not a volunteer. I am just sometimes a target of his insanity, insecurity, meanness, and abuse.
Tammy, how happy I am that you are still with us. Thank you for reminding us that we are where we are and not to feel bad about not being "more spiritual" more strong, more understanding, or more perfect!!! I know I berate myself a lot for not being a spiritual giant and fixing him or myself and making all OK. I have been really upset that I couldn't let go and "leave the past behind" just because I wanted to. God does love him and me too! I am now learning to let the past go, but again the price is high--I can't emphasize it enough what we lose in intimacy and real relationship to be "spiritual" and move on. We don't get the partner we want--or I haven’t. By letting him get away with "it" I let any real hope for a loving partner slip away too. I have left--a shell of a marriage. A nice arrangement. A man who can't abuse me and won't leave me. Tammy--you are lucky he's gone! Now you can be like Dawn and learn to "forgive" from afar. Its really hard to forgive when they are still in your face and saying, "What all the hullabaloo about anyway? Isn't life grand?" Yeah, honey its a Grand Slam! Love you all, Shelly
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
Hello Beautiful Ladies, Right now I'm not so hot looking with the weeping wounds and stitches and two black eyes. I laughed and looked at my husband over dinner and said, "It must be hard for you because I don't look like me. It must be a shock every time you glance at me." He paused and said very woefully, "It's not just that. You aren't the same. You don't act the same. Everything is different." And he appeared sad, forlorn.
I smiled. Yes, everything is different and I am so happy about it. Love you all, Shelly
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
Hi pretty ladies, Just a note. I slipped! My husband used to work for the shipyards at Newport News, Virginia. A lot of those men were exposed to asbestos and suffered from asbestosis. They began a class action suit and the shop yards are settling with a lot of them by giving them tons of money if their lungs are infected. My H is going in to have his lungs checked. A little scary. If there is any damage, he'll receive something. When we sat in the tub the other day, talking, my guy mentioned that he had an abnormal x-ray on his lungs about 8 years ago that they explained away as something that happened when he was a child. I sat up, knowing that comparing x-rays with a base-line is the best way to make a diagnosis for something. In fact, sometimes a problem can't be spotted without a base-line. Anyway, I got excited and suggested that he get a copy of his x-ray from the past and take it with him. He pooh-poohed my suggestion so I began explaining how it could make the difference... he cut me off in a very irritated tone and declared he wasn't going to tell them anything about the past x-ray unless they found something with the new x-ray. If they did, he quipped, then and only then would he say anything. They would get a copy of I; he didn't have to do anything--it was their job to do that not his. I shut up. What was I thinking? Offering support and love and help—how co-dependent of me!!!! Of course we don't want me taking over and controlling anything. Anyway. I reminded myself that his life is his and mine mine and never the two shall meet, unless he wants dinner.
Have any of you had similar experiences. I think I know the answer to this one already. I found Patricia Evans website, pretty awesome. I was thinking of getting a consultation from her. Telling her the abuse stopped, her technique works. I have to remain forever vigilant, he stopped the abuse and any hope of intimacy. Where does one go from here? What do you think? Shelly
Subject: I understand how he feels
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002
From: Dawn
To: The Ladies
Shelly and all, Totally normal. Totally sucks! I have been accused of being unresponsive to "suggestions" and putting off people who are just trying to help me (like you trying to help your H based on some knowledge you have on x-rays).
The feeling I get in this situation is anxiety that someone close to me is getting all excited about what I "should" do
and in my head, I question the validity of their suggestion. If I don't do what they say, will they be mad? (more
anxiety). However, as an adult, I handle this anxiety mostly with quietness and just saying "I'll take that into
consideration." or "I'll have to look into that." Some of my more outwardly emotional friends (I'm not outwardly
emotional), get bummed because I don't get excited about their suggestions. I have to analyze every angle before I make a decision.
Anyway, the point here is that if your guy felt controlled, he didn't have to react the way he did to you. He could have said "I'll take that into consideration, honey. Thanks for thinking of that." And left it at that. IF you kept talking about it and it was bugging him, he might say, "I appreciate your excitement and help on this, but I just have to work on this in my head and in my efforts -- on my own for a bit." Nicely asking you to back off for a while. THAT is how well-adjusted adults handle stuff like this, in my opinion.
I know that I feel the stress levels raise when someone is suggesting something to me. It must be something from my childhood (feeling chaotic so much and having to control my own environment and not let others control me.) Previous to my work on myself, I let this get the best of me, getting angry, distant or whatever toward my friends/family when they make too many suggestions. But now I just say the things I wrote "I'll take that into consideration." and that works. If someone persists, I gently tell them that I need to think about it on my own, and that works too. IT also doesn't DAMAGE the relationship. Some of my friends have taken my gentle shutdown personally, as if I don't respect their opinion, but I have learned to not compensate for that. I have learned that that person is attaching too much to what they have offered. Almost as if there is a repayment expected for their suggestion in that I follow it, therefore validating them. That's my take anyway. But I have learned to not stress out if they take my gentle shutdown personally but to just repeat my "thinking about it" statement and treat them nicely so that they see no damage had been done.
What sucks between you and your H is that he damages the relationship by being unable to express himself lovingly to you rather than angrily. Is this helpful at all or am I being narcissistic? Dawn
Subject: He feels "pushed" by me when I get excited by stuff
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002
From: Shelly
To: Wonderful Women
You know Dawn, I think you are right about how he feels. I understood that he feels "pushed" by me when I get excited by stuff. I think you share that with him, it sounds like it. You're right, it "sucks" that we can't talk about things. The give and take in a relationship would be so nice. I wouldn't mind getting excited and him saying, "You know, Hun, I'd rather just let them handle everything and not worry about prior x-rays unless they find something first." Then I might explain why I think it’s important, and he could consider my suggestion and act on it or not. It’s no big deal. The only big deal is I wasn't able to explain myself and what I know because his anger shuts me down. In other words, we can't talk. Sigh.
We went to visit his family in South Carolina this weekend. (don't get me started on how he won't visit my family and I pay for my trips and when we visit his, we split the costs!) We drove down with his Sister and her husband. I've always known that Janice sort of picked on her husband and subtly put him down more than is comfortable for a guest (I spend lots of time with them when I do business in their town) but for the first time I noticed how similar her pattern is to my H’s. His sister is the verbal abuser in their relationship and much of it is very similar to her brother’s patterns. She controls as much as anyone will let her. She drove; my H drives us. She picks the restaurants; my H usually does with us (I have veto power only!). Two quick examples--she got really fussy and short tempered with her husband because he wasn't reading the directions the way she thought he should, and when my brother-in-law ordered roast beef for dinner, she quipped "Why roast beef when they have prime rib?" He shrugged, "I mean prime rib" "Well, she retorted, "Roast beef and prime rib are not the same you know. There's a lot of difference between the two." he looked away.
I was flabbergasted. That is the exact thing my mate used to do with me. It's so demeaning. My brother-in-law can hardly say a thing that she doesn't correct his terminology, his manner of saying or doing something.. and he is constantly trying to please. Her husband was a real estate attorney, very well paid and very well informed. She is a nurse. He still goes to college to keep us his level of knowledge of history and politics. She goes to seminars. He, is up to the minute on the news, she isn't. Yet she is constantly correcting him!
One might say, "Ah ha! Learned behavior from their mother." who was, similar to this too. Not too quickly. K, my mate's son, is also like this! K tells me where to stand in the supermarket line (his father does too) K will tell me to move in the isles if a lady is behind me with her basket; his father does too. He will instruct me where to drive (and he's only 13!). So I'm thinking this may be a transmissible trait like certain mannerisms.
My husband treated me like a Queen on this trip, even going so far as to tell me thank you for being patient when it got very boring with his family. I have effectively stopped so much abuse, it's delightful. I suppose with this personality type, just using the Evan's techniques and setting boundaries stops much of this.
Hey-- I'd like to hear how Tammy's move has gone and if she is still making lunch for her kids and allowing her ex to escape his responsibilities. I'd like to hear about the progress of Dawn's new (well not so new now) guy. Love you all, Shelly
Subject: I think verbal abuse/control does run in families
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002
From: Dawn
To: Wonderful Women
Shelly and all, Hello. I hope the word "sucks" doesn't offend you. It's kind of a common word my peers use but it’s origins may be of offense to some :- )
Your words just about sum it up: You and your mate can't talk. Not with his anger. What's ironic about it is (I'm guessing) one of the things he was most attracted to in you at the onset was your excitability, your zest for things, your helping, supportive nature.
I think verbal abuse/control does run in families. When everything you do is monitored and commented on or non-verbally commented on (rolled eyes, ignoring achievements/work accomplished, etc.) it wears you down so much. I know you all know this already. Typical abuse stuff. If you can stand it, here's one more thing I wrote about my ex and how he criticized me. A letter I never sent him but it made my feel better to put my feelings into words that I could see and refer to when I felt "small." Here it is:
I relished your attentiveness and desire for me when we first started dating 9-plus years ago. I craved some of that when we moved in together.
You assured me that love will come for you in time. You proceeded to ensure that you can’t love a person like me through your judgment and ridicule of who I am by trivializing, ignoring or raging over what I feel, how I feel it and why I feel it; what I think, how I think and why I think it; what I like, who I like and why I like it. You added disapproval and disappointment over what I do or don’t do, how it’s done or not done and why I do it or don’t do it. Then denying you are trivializing, ignoring, raging or disapproving and announce my insecurity and oversensitivity when I raise a protest.
Design your exit for your self-preservation. Disapprove of who I am, withhold the love you said would come, then stand back and watch the black magic work. I leave you. You are the deserted one. You tried. I was crazy. We were just too different.
You find what you are looking for. If you look for reasons not to love, you find them and reinforce them, and for your efforts, you get to keep your pride, your self-righteousness and your superiority. If you look for reasons to love, you find them and reinforce them, and for your efforts, you get to keep your word, your humanity and your integrity.
As long as you fear love, you will find reasons not to love.
And if intimacy means slow strangulation to you, then don’t offer your love to someone who loves you for who you are, even the parts that make you do what you did. Even the parts that hang on to pride, deny fear and embrace anger as a substitute for the softer feelings that threaten your hard exterior and hardening heart.
If you fear love, don’t promise it. If you can’t love, don’t dangle it in front of one who can. Don’t transfer the pain you deny in yourself to one that believes in love. Don’t work to diminish another’s belief in themselves to mask the nagging sense of dissatisfaction you carry, but bury.
As for me and Jamie, we are well. We have started a conversation on getting familiar with each other and how we both miss the more exciting, long conversations we had when we first started talking again. I am very much in the winter blahs and my weak side fears he will bail on me because I'm boring and always just want to sleep and not talk on the phone or stay up late when we have "sleepovers." So, I'm going to try to gently bring it up again when we are together tonight. Any ideas? Dawn
Subject: Why love seems special with abusers/controllers
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002
From: Mom
To: Wonderful Women
Was listening to that new program I don't much like with men hosts and a guy that had written a book on relationships was talking about "jerks". By this I gathered they meant abusing men. He said you could not read relationship books with these men because (as you said it takes two) they spend all their time trying to be right and will not listen to anything positive. You cannot debate with them because all their life is a debate about how they are right and they can debate you into a stupor. Love seems to be more "special" with them because it's more intense, good guys seem to love everyone and we don't perceive it as "special". The relationship has to be evaluated in terms of whether you are getting enough to be able to stay with them. He advises hanging around with positive people to try and get more positive and resist their "jerkdom". It was interesting. I like the word JERK. LLM
Subject: Our sweet little dog died
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002
From: Shelly
To: The Ladies
Last night my dog died, little Bella--a 5 pound Chihuahua. My H and I were rushing her to the hospital and she died in his arms. He was very close to little Bella and it was the one constant joy in our marriage that we shared. It's hard not to try and blame the kennel where we boarded her this weekend for letting her catch something or the vet who said it was just depression, or each other--yet I know it's nothing to do with blame for anyone. It just is--
Just sharing some overwhelming grief. It is on the 6 month anniversary of Sept. 11 and it makes it seem insignificant compared to other's losses-- but we loved her so much. Shelly
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002
From: Dawn
To: The Ladies
Shelly, I am so sorry. It sounds as if she was such a sweet, good friend. My thoughts are with you. Dawn
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002
From: Mom
To: Shelly
I just can't believe it. Sweet Bella, so smart and loving. We all will miss her but you and your husband must be heartbroken. She wormed her way deep into your hearts. Love, Mom
Subject: Partner Management Tools
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002
From: Shelly
To: My Sisters
Hello Sisters, Thanks for heartfelt condolences on my dog. What a shock. Both my husband and I loved that dog. He is taking it very hard and I pray for God to comfort him and help him work through it. Tammy sent me a card and she is fine and into the new place, her computer isn't up yet, and she's happier.
Dawn, I hear what you are asking about Jamie and fearing he will find you boring. You say it’s your weak side, and yes it is--your co-dependent side that fears his judgment of you. Instead of being yourself--you have to "gently" bring up something so as not to earn his disapproval. Is that what I'm hearing? You are ages ahead of me in understanding all this abusive stuff and when you are tired or scared, you seem to leap back into the codependent role again. Am I imagining this? I realized that I practically invited my husband to be the antagonist to my co-dependency. The way I recognize it today is this: since I have insisted that he treat me well--employed the anti-abuse techniques and make zero apologies for my thoughts, desires, and actions--he is treating me very well. So I had to have invited it!
I learned besides telling them "Stop it!", "You aren't allowed to speak to me that way!" and "What?" (Evan’s newest partner management tool from Controlling People) you must never explain why you are saying it. They get it, but pretend not to in order to engage you again. If my man questions me about these statements I simply repeat and go about my business. It works very well. I also employed the CoDA boundary setting exercise which Patricia doesn't mention, but I found this works so well too. You must have a consequence attached to each behavior they do that scares you--for instance, just telling my mate to “Stop it!,” when he blows up and rages at me isn't enough. So I decided to set a boundary, which says "You cannot rage at me." The last time he did, I stated the consequences, "Whenever you get angry and act out, such as yelling at me and throwing things, I will sleep downstairs for the night." I did that and he said, "Sleep where ever you want" and that was it and it worked! We didn't fight, he stopped raging and hasn't done it since. I love the exercises and I grieve somewhat for a partnership that just won't be. But at least I live in relative peace now.
How did your talk go with Jamie? Many Blessings to all. Shelly
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002
From: Dawn
To: Our Sisters
Hello Ladies! I support all of Shelly's comments on responding to abuse (Stop it) and setting boundaries. Good stuff. Still, it's hard to let go of the partnership wish. In a strange way, the fighting, circle of abuse keeps the partnership fantasy more alive. When you begin to stop the abuse, the reality of the lack of partnership is too clear to ignore -- or there is little in the way (the latest fight, hurt) to stop you from acknowledging it. I still believe that in some cases, the partnership can be attained! With time, of course, and patience (even when you feel like you've already given too much of your time and patience away).
Shelly, yes you are right that I slip into co-dependency mindset/actions when I'm tired/ weak or get into an insecure state of mind. If I feel like someone is abandoning me, distancing from me, I get like that.
What I'm still getting used to with Jamie is that when I do my co-dependency stuff and express my worries and fears and start over-compensating for him, he doesn't bite on it. He doesn't take advantage of me and he always reassures my insecurities, and tells me its OK that I tell him and that I'm weak at times and worried about him distancing, etc. He is so NON ABUSIVE, I don't know what to do with it sometimes. I'm happy about it, don't get me wrong, but it's still strange.
I wrote him a letter about my feelings on some of the issues he had mentioned and that I had felt lately about getting
familiar, etc. and since then, I have seen an increase in both of our efforts to put more effort into exploring each
other's thoughts, feelings, backgrounds, preferences and not just think we know what the other wants. Also, we both have increased our time together lately, where I was starting to find reasons not to spend time with him for whatever
complicated reasons were going on. Although I fear him getting bored with me; I also fear me getting bored with him, and stupidly letting the greatest guy I've ever known go. Does this make any sense?
Jamie's is certainly not perfect. He doesn't anticipate my every need or provide exactly what I want at the exact right
time, but he is good, compassionate, caring, loving, he INVOLVES me in his life. The things that bug me about him slightly or not worth getting worked up over and I refrain from nagging him about them or getting upset. For example, Jamie most always makes plans on the fly. He and I will talk about going bowling with the kids and I'll think it's just the four of us and then one hour before we go, come to find he just called three other friends of ours to see if they want to come. I don't care about the extra company but I like to know the situation and am not very spur of the moment when it comes to those things but mainly it bugs me that he doesn't even think to check with me on it. Usually, it's only when our plans were very loose to begin with that this happens, but it still slightly bugs me. Another thing is he gives into his ex-wife so much and to his detriment. That's really in the category of NONE OF MY BUSINESS. She (the ex) is the abuser in that relationship and it makes me nuts. I withhold giving my two cents unless he asks for it, which he frequently does ask. So I get to talk to him about my theories on abuse and what I've learned and my opinion on the pattern he's stuck in with his ex. But what it comes down to is, he will do whatever he feels he has to do (give-in to her mostly) and I can live with that. If we ever got married or something, I would just have to minimize as much as possible the residual effect she would have on me through Jamie's giving in to her. Anyway, these are things I think about. I'm rambling and talking about myself too much again! Be well, Dawn
Subject: The “Gently” theory and gender generalizations
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002
From: Dawn
To: Wonderful Women
Shelly, Second, I wanted to comment on how I wrote I was going to "gently" bring up the getting familiar and bored with each other conversation with Jamie. You saw that and it raised a flag with you that I had to "gently" bring up topics with him and I'm glad you pointed it out b/c I KNOW I still fall into the trap of walking on eggshells when I'm bringing up relationship topics even though Jamie doesn't warrant that. He doesn't blow up or ignore or anything when I bring stuff up. He just listens and gives me his take on it and we talk about it. At worst, he gets quiet or defensive and then we talk about how we are feeling. Anyway, the point I want to introduce here is about a theory I have on the differences in communication styles with men and women. It seems pervasive in all types of relationships and both verbally abusive and non-verbally abusive male-female relationships. Of course, these are all gender generalizations!
The theory is this: Women tend to bring up relationship "issues" or problems as an opening to a conversation and
immediately after they start feeling a problem. Sometimes women are very tasked to get this talked about RIGHT NOW and men perceive their approach on the issue as pretty aggressive. So, men are hearing their wives/girlfriends bring up a problem and they feel cornered or even "assaulted" without warning and tend to distance themselves by clamming up, escaping through physical distance or getting defensive, which makes the woman feel unheard. If she persists, he persists in distancing and it continues while nothing gets worked out or expressed.
This is how my ex and I were. I was hell-bent on getting the "issues" out right now, when they were weighing on my mind and thinking they must be weighing heavily on his mind too (How could they not be? It was so important to me.) However, the thing was, the issues weren't weighing on his mind or weren't high on his list. Anyway, my aggressive approach led him to ignore me and I felt unheard and misunderstood. That turned our bad communication worse.
So my point being that when I say "gently" bring up an issue with Jamie, I intended to mean that I wouldn't blindside him with “issues” but I would allow some time to get warmed up before talking about the scarier stuff.
I know it's baby-handling to some degree and maybe I don't give guys enough credit. Yet, I truly believe (rightly or wrongly) that many guys are so sensitive about how they are approached and feeling "attacked" that this gentle way has so much greater results in resolving the issue or at least, bringing it to their attention and getting your feelings out. If it were up to me, most people would just cut to the nitty-gritty and get stuff out in the open and resolved but I'm telling you, guys don't work stuff out that way. I've observed this between male friends and relatives. Male-to-male communication is so DIFFERENT than females. IF I may be sexist, we women truly have the thicker skins.
That's my two cents. Opinions anyone? Dawn
Subject: Men have conned us, they are not that sensitive
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002
From: Shelly
To: Dawn
Hello Dawn et al, OK, I've been mulling over Dawn's observations and questions for a week and have several things to say. I don't know how correct any of it would be, but just coming out of an abusive period of my marriage, I am very sensitive to the abuse thing. And more sensitive to the co-dependence thing. Dawn, you said:
So, men are hearing their wives/girlfriends bring up a problem and they feel cornered or even "assaulted" without warning
I think, rightly or wrongly, that this is the biggest con they have pulled on us. Men aren't that sensitive at all. They flat don't want to be bothered. You need to read Patricia's new book Controlling People because this "sensitivity" is more like "don't bother me with things that are not of me, you are part of me and our relationship should go soothingly because you shouldn't be having separate thoughts!" I believe this would be her take on it.
Now when you say, “… thinking they must be weighing heavily on his mind too (how could they not be”
I agree wholeheartedly! Gosh things that bug the crap out of us mean nothing to them. But you see it isn't coming from them and you are part of them and so it can't be much of anything, anyway. Do you see what I mean? It doesn't weigh heavily on them because it’s not of them. Where-by the co-dependent (us) will be sensitized to every little whim of our partners, they don't want to acknowledge any whims of ours because we are supposed to be part of them, and thus don't have separate whims.
I can't imagine how this doesn't jump out at you, “Anyway, my aggressive approach turned him to ignoring me..” This line of yours is screaming at me. Dawn, how aggressive have you ever been? When his buddies or men at work approach him about problems, he considers them. This is what always has gotten to me, they give their buddies and co-workers more consideration and respect than us. But in Controlling People this is explained. They see us as part of them and we should not have separate thoughts and ideas and any perceived "differences" cause the various types of abuse. After all, "ignoring" is abusive. Talking about your problem is not aggressive and his perceived "being attacked" is a perception problem of his. This is not your responsibility. This is minor, Dawn, but we both know in our hearts that if you “baby handle” now, it will g row and grow until you are tip-toeing around to not trigger his "being attacked" feelings. In other words, if you allow his misperception to be real now--you are inviting future abuse--I did this with my H.
You also wrote, “I intended to mean that I wouldn't blindside him.” You have never blindsided him. His misperceptions are his problem. And as you "baby" him about it, he will take you up on it. We train them to abuse us and I think you are training him to abuse you.
You also wrote, “That many guys are so sensitive about how they are approached and feeling "attacked" They are not sensitive about how their buddies approach them, Dawn. And we should have the same respect--no MORE--than their buddies. It’s a con on us and we buy into it. I am beginning to see so clearly how I trained my man to abuse me; I welcomed abuse with open arms. The more I babied him, the worst it got and the more I tried to control him with the babying, it increased. As you try to control how Jamie reacts to you by "babying" him, you begin the whole cycle of co-dependency, as I have begun to understand it. You control to earn his love; he learns to take advantage of your trying to placate him; as he plays on your weaknesses you try harder, and it spirals.
It’s my take, anyway. A lot of this I am only seeing because I've made my man stop! I won't allow him not to respect me and my feelings. He treats me so good right now, but I swear, if I let up for a minute, he descends right aback into it. Let me know what you think. I'll be gone on a business trip for a week, but am looking forward to hearing from all.
Tammy, I know you are busy, but this is getting to the heart of our problem.
I want to clarify that I'm not saying Jamie is abusive, Dawn. He sounds wonderful to me. I'm talking about our patterns and I think we train them more than we realized. Just didn't' want you to think I was attacking him because I'm not—LOL, Shelly
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002
From: Dawn
To: You Gals
Shelly et al, Thanks for your insights. I often wonder if I will find myself in an abusive relationship again -- one that I create, not choose on the outset, so I am very in tune with your observations. As you said in your PS, I don't think Jamie is abusive either. Like I wrote in the previous e-mail:
"I KNOW I still fall into the trap of walking on eggshells when I'm bringing up relationship topics even though Jamie doesn’t warrant that. He doesn’t blow up or ignore or anything when I bring stuff up. He just listens and gives me his take on it and we talk about it. At worst, he gets quiet or defensive and then we talk about how we are feeling and it usually comes back around."
Even when I approach Jamie head on (aggressively by my more recent standards), he just reacts as above. I keep waiting for him to bite back, to get mean like I can be, but he never is. Yeah, sometimes he says something heading toward insensitive and he rolls his eyes too much (I've nailed him on this and told him I don't like it, it's disrespectful, and I will continue to point it out when he does it. He claims it’s such a routine gesture that it’s practically involuntary and I told him to retrain himself!) He's not perfect but he isn't abusive.
Anyway, Shelly, I see what you are saying and I'm going to think about it. As a first reaction, I think I have given up in a sense and just have resigned myself to "baby-handling" of men. I fought it all my life until after I "recovered" from my ex. I'm probably selling out and I could go back, but it just seems like a small sacrifice (to just think men are so sensitive and approach them "gently" with issues) to make with a nonabusive man in a nonabusive relationship. Men do play dumb a lot, in my opinion and get out of a lot of relationship work. I've just succumbed to that part of the male agenda I guess. I hope I'm not deluding myself!!!!
Oh, here's another thing to ponder. Even though I write about nonabusive relationships, I really think that all people and all relationships contain abusive incidents. It's the frequency and ongoing habits/patterns that determine the larger abusive/nonabusive categories. This is even a strange thought to me in a way, because I am talking emotional and/or verbal abuse here, not physical abuse. One incident of physical abuse and I would be gone, no question. No guy has ever hit me. One boundary I've stuck to. I just choose the verbal abusers, lucky me! I guess really in a way I DO feel lucky for that. Anyway, can a relationship have infrequent abusive incidents and not be overall defined as abusive?
Let me know your thoughts! I have to get the new Evans book. Dawn
Subject: Bitches get respect, broads get abused.
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:21:26 -0400
From Shelly Marshall
To: Our Sisters
Well, I read and reread Dawn's share. Hmmmm. I always think I’ve picked up the hoe to do the work and then another plant (weed or flower is hard to determine at first) breaks ground. My “Dandy lion” has been a darling. I was rushed to the hospital last week with chest pain and he was so sweet. No kidding, very supportive. Oh, did I speak too soon? Remember that Evans said when it is "safe" for them and we are weak, they slip back into the abuse? Well the very next day, after I felt so loved and cherished by my “supportive” man, he came after me again. Seems he doesn’t want me building on the land I bought across from our house because he wants to hunt on it. He couldn't understand why I wanted to increase my income because, after all, “I am paying you $200 a month.” (The $200 a month is money he owes me--to pay off $20,000 at no interest!) So again I must repeat--I have to remain forever vigilant and never let my guard down. If my partner perceives his place to be safe and secure with me, I get abused. I ignored his complaints and he went away. Bitches get respect, broads get abused.
Dawn, you said, "I'm probably selling out and I could go back, but it just seems like a small sacrifice." That's just the problem Dawn, any one incident is small. I remember saying to my counselor "Any one thing is so petty that I feel guilty for bringing it up--it's only looking at the whole picture that you begin to see how oppressive it all is." For
me, I don't even want the little stuff to go by--they build all too quickly. But you are younger and maybe I'm getting too harsh. I'm just so sick of it. You also said that you f eel lucky because you only pick the verbal abuse--well, remember the literature--it points out that when we live in the verbal abuse, we tend to take more and recognize it
less. We are actually the unlucky ones because its so hard to see. But I do agree that all relationships have moments of abuse, it is how you handle them that makes the difference. Many of the abusive moments with my guy, would not have wounded my spirit so badly if he would cop to it--but he can't and so the abuse festers and it lays the foundation for more abuse. If we recognize the abusive incident, remedy the situation, and don't repeat it (at least not often) then it’s not an abusive relationship, I don't reckon. I figure if we recognize it, remedy it, and try not to repeat it then we live in a mature partnership in a real world---Good luck to all of us! Shelly
Date: Wednesday, May 15, 2002
From: Dawn
To: Wonderful Women
Hello
all! Long time! I've been house-hunting and generally busy. I have
missed our
little group though. I'm close to making an offer on a cute townhouse
for me
and my son. I'm excited and frightened. It's a big financial commitment
but
it's time to do it.
Please let me know how you are all doing. Dawn
Go To Section Six: Who is the Abuser?